Canon's 4K Cinema EOS Official Announcement & Latest Info-NAB 2012

Tone it down, peoples... Or this will be a historic announcement on DVXuser: The one that got shut down before page 20.

:D

Nope, the next historical announcement in a few months time will be: "Canon to cut 10,000 jobs, Sony to employ 10,000!"
 
Why would you drop a ton of cash (unless you had huge money-making jobs between now and Dragon).
The better question (to me) is: why would you drop a ton of cash on ANYTHING unless you had huge money-making jobs right now?

If you've got the jobs, buy whatever satisfies your requirements, go do the jobs, and get the invoices submitted.

And if you don't have the jobs, don't go spending a ton of money on any camcorder, regardless of how fancy the spec sheet seems.

Seems like they are forcing slow sales by announcing that....from what I've read the upgrade will lag the announcement considerably.
I don't understand Red's business model. Announcing upgrades before you've even delivered the product that you're announcing an upgrade for, seems backwards to me. Maybe those who are potential Red customers are reassured by the notion that whatever they buy today will not be obsoleted tomorrow? Others may respond like you are -- why buy an outdated product now when the replacement's already been announced... as for slowing sales, that's called getting Kaypro'd (look up the Kaypro II if you don't know the reference). Does it happen nowadays in our hyper-short-attention-span society? Probably. As to what will happen with Red, well, it's their business, and it's run by a guy who's a thousand times smarter than most of us, so whether I can understand the logic or not, I presume that he knows what he's doing and that it's working for them.
 
What pi$$es me off is that this isn't really a new camera, but a 1DX with what looks like a firmware update (I could be wrong). So charging 3x what a 1DX costs (Any doubters that this will be £15k? thought not) is down right profiteering.

At least Canon have done me a favour, since I won't now be tempted to overextend my already threadbare finances for a cine DSLR, which I might have been tempted to if it came in at £6k

5DIII will be my limit, perhaps with OLPF removal after warranty
 
What pi$$es me off is that this isn't really a new camera, but a 1DX with what looks like a firmware update (I could be wrong).

Well yea, you could be wrong... So why get angry? No one else, including RED, has been able to deliver 4K at this sensor size (APS-H) or in this size/weight... So who knows the amount of hard work that went into this "firmware"?
 
Maybe those who are potential Red customers are reassured by the notion that whatever they buy today will not be obsoleted tomorrow?
That's always how I understood it. Pre-NAB 2011, the official word was that the Epic would not have sensor upgrades like the Red One did to the MX sensor - that the Monstro line of sensors would each have their own brain - not quite having to buy a whole new camera, but still more painful than a sensor upgrade. The announcement of the Dragon upgrade, I think, was meant to make Epic buyers feel that much more secure in their purchase, and possibly to entice some of those who were "holding out" for the Monstro cameras (even without the slightest inclination as to their release timelines).
 
Well yea, you could be wrong... So why get angry? No one else, including RED, has been able to deliver 4K at this sensor size (APS-H) or in this size/weight... So who knows the amount of hard work that went into this "firmware"?

Epic shoots 5K @ APS-H 120FPS Without an Externa recorder.

the 1D is almost the size of an Epic/Scarlet.

At this price, no. But, just saying, they do that.
 
One nice thing about Red... simple camera names... Red... Epic... Scarlet... all these camera models with numbers you keep getting them mixed up... lol...

Didn't see it or might have missed it... does the new 1C do 4k at 60p...
 
Professional products should be professionally priced, and just because we all want 4k for $4k doesn't mean we should get it. In fact in some ways I think we shouldn't get it, because it's only inviting compromise. No doubt Sony are offering more features for less $, but that's not to say that it makes their products better - it's just that they're likely more flexible (given certain compromises) and therefore more suitable for people with lower budgets. But clearly that's not where Canon have their sights set, and I like the way Canon are keeping it simple and focusing on what's important. I think the result of that will be a very cimematic product. I don't think many of Canon's competitors can truly make that claim

Totally agree. Canon aims these at people who demand a certain quality (from build over IQ to codec and workflow) and don't want to make too many compromises on set. The C300 is a different beast than the plasticky Sony EXs and FSs. Hence it is priced around the F3. The only company that was able to keep value, price and technical achievement in a consumer-friendly pricerange was Panasonic. The DVX-HVX-HPX line are very well built and always ahead of their times in terms of lens, codec and IQ. The AF 100 was an adventure and if, then Panasonic will deliver the true 1080p for less than 8.000.

Canon now has a C300 which was the straight upgrade path for people like me who had invested in Canon gear already. It is going to be their cash-cow for a while, because it is able to deliver formthe big screen and for broadcast just as well as formindies with a cheap rental price and lensrange.

These 2 new C-Cams are aimed at the 4k market. Anyone who complains about the price doesn't need 4K anyway. We sound like taxi drivers who want great mileage out of a racecar. Sure we want the performance of a racecar, but our clients won't pay the extra charge. They won't feel the difference in the rush-hour anyway.

4k is overrated anyway IMO. The world hasn't even settled for 1080p yet.
 
4k is overrated anyway IMO. The world hasn't even settled for 1080p yet.

Agreed. It's 720p for broadcast mostly and 2K for the big screen. Why would you need 4k? We are acting like children, wanting the new big bad shiny toy.

Where I come from people mostly still watch SD and not HD because the infrastructure isn't up to it yet.
The web (youtube, vimeo) has the best quality here at the moment.

And my HPX171 is perfectly acceptable for broadcast. If it's shot and graded nicely it produces stunning images. And everybody goes "wooow, how nice!".
And it's a 1/3 size 960x720 raster sensor!:) (it's a bit grainy but that's why there's "neat video":))


So, my point being: for 95% of the production that WE do (not Hollywood) we don't need 4k. You don't even need it for those 5% as 2K is just great for the big screen.
 
They already announced the sensor upgrade program months ago, it's called Dragon. No specifications on what it will do, but Epics (and I think Scarlets?) will have the option of upgrading to the Dragon sensor.
Jim Jannard did say that Scarlets would probably be upgradeable, but that there would be an additional cost for new circuit boards necessary to run Dragon.
 
Anyone who complains about the price doesn't need 4K anyway. We sound like taxi drivers who want great mileage out of a racecar. Sure we want the performance of a racecar, but our clients won't pay the extra charge. They won't feel the difference in the rush-hour anyway.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
From memory it was a 5 grand upgrade to go from scarlet to dragon. But y'know how everything changes, etc etc
 
The sad reality is that most clients I deliver to find it a nuisance when I deliver on Blu-Ray instead of DVD... And most of them, when given the option, have no clue as to the difference.

That is to say - as much as I would enjoy upgrading my workflow to 4k for the sake of being part of the leading pack, most people I work with are still going to want it on DVD.
 
The sad reality is that most clients I deliver to find it a nuisance when I deliver on Blu-Ray instead of DVD... And most of them, when given the option, have no clue as to the difference.

That is to say - as much as I would enjoy upgrading my workflow to 4k for the sake of being part of the leading pack, most people I work with are still going to want it on DVD.

Same here. The highest I've ever given a client is 720p .mp4 files as a backup and/or put on youtube. The rest of the time it's going on a website at 480p or smaller and DVD. No one has ever complained or asked for anything higher res.

We don't even have a blu-ray burner in house. Never needed one.
 
Any idea when more news of the C500 will be coming? I hope they have a 4K solution ready to roll. I really loved what Canon did with the C300.... a 4K RAW version will be beautiful... Even if I can only rent, at this point.
 
No way would I jump on Scarlet before the upgrade. However, after is a different story.
In fact as a cross over camera for photography and video I need 5K, because when I pull stills that extra little bit of resolution makes a big difference.
Unfortunately it is only 12fps currently.
I understand with the upgrade, that would move up to 24/25p as well.
Additionally, it really is needed to improve low light performance, as the whole bar has moved for that criteria, especially in stills world.

As an investment for hybrid purposes, Dragon represents a reasonable reason for investing at that point.
 
Anyone who complains about the price doesn't need 4K anyway.

Sorry, but I can't help but feel that that is rather unfair. So only those who don't complain about the price need 4K?

If Canon wants to make "crash cameras", "cameras for Hollywood", "compete with RED", so be it - I'm sure I speak for many when I say that they have lost the hearts and minds of the very people, the low-budget indie-filmmakers/cinematographers, that gave them their reputation as a company capable of creating cinematic images...
 
Sorry, but I can't help but feel that that is rather unfair. So only those who don't complain about the price need 4K?

No, but reality is 4K is not "affordable" yet. RED´s cost money, F65´s cost money. The Canon costs less, but is still a lot for us small productions. And then add the postproduction to the equation. 4K is simply not easily to be paid for in a low-budget production. That´s is why many here already try calculating rental prices.
 
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