C100: Canon XC10 Info & Pre-Order Link Texas Media Systems

[puredrifting]

Real film makers use external recorders anyway! I've never used an XLR mic on my C100, I use the audio to match it up with an external recorder.

Real film makers don't typically use a low end camera like this. They seem to have gravitated more toward the low end BMD cameras or of course, if they have a budget, they rent a real camera like an Alexa, Amira, RED or F55. As far as your situation, I agree if you are shooting a film and want the best sound but I use the C100 internal audio for most shoots and it's pretty decent, especially for dialogue. Then again, I do more television, doc, BTS and corporate work, not feature films or indie films. I do agree with you, the internal audio on most cameras is crap, even a $200.00 external will sound better than any camera if you go by pure specs but there is that "good enough" factor for most projects. The pre-amps and audio sections even on high end cameras are terrible, that's the way it has always been. But keeping track of takes, rolling with two devices instead of one with small crews or one man band is a PITA and syncing in post just eats up time.

 

[TSDavis]

I'm weirdly intrigued by this camera. Personally I think it would be a decent B or C-cam when doing corporate work such as interviews. To me this could replace something like the pocket cam (except for those moments were the physical size is your deciding factor) as I love the grip and use of the LP-e6 batteries. Also having C-log to match to my c100 would be more convenient then grading something like my sony to match. I will say I would have preferred XLRs and another ND stop but hey, when don't we want more?

 

[Michael Thames]

Real film makers don't typically use a low end camera like this. They seem to have gravitated more toward the low end BMD cameras or of course, if they have a budget, they rent a real camera like an Alexa, Amira, RED or F55. As far as your situation, I agree if you are shooting a film and want the best sound but I use the C100 internal audio for most shoots and it's pretty decent, especially for dialogue. Then again, I do more television, doc, BTS and corporate work, not feature films or indie films. I do agree with you, the internal audio on most cameras is crap, even a $200.00 external will sound better than any camera if you go by pure specs but there is that "good enough" factor for most projects. The pre-amps and audio sections even on high end cameras are terrible, that's the way it has always been. But keeping track of takes, rolling with two devices instead of one with small crews or one man band is a PITA and syncing in post just eats up time.

Yes, right. I don't see this as a high end camera either so having XLR's is kind a non issue. It does have a mic input, and there are a lot of decent mics, lavalier mics, etc. you can use. Other wise move up to external recording. The GH4 costs the same as this camera, but if you want XLR's you got to buy the extra unit (forget the name) that costs more than the camera body.

I do mostly videos of classical music so a good high end recorder with good mics are essential for what I do...... and yea matching up the audio is sometimes a pain in the asres if you don't organise stuff well in advance. I used to use Plural eyes in FCP6, but PE doesn't work well with FCPX so I don't use it any more.

I think I would buy this camera over a GH4..... however the real question coming up for me is do I buy this, or another C100 mkI for a B camera. With the XC10 I could sell my 5D3 and use the XC10 as a photo camera as well...... I don't do prints just upload to the wed for my business so this might be the answer.

 

[Razz16mm]

The demo video just looks hot, overexposed by a stop or so. This would be a stellar replacement for my old GL2 at the same price I paid for it. I generally shoot it 1 stop or so under the internal meter reference for better DR and highlight handling. The same will be true of XC10. It would show a lot less noise in the shadows shooting under and I bet the improved sensitivity would more than make up for the difference in lens speed. Many sensors in low end cameras these days can capture more DR than the internal video codecs they record to can reproduce. That's what log curves and correct manual exposures are for.

 

[baremis]

Gopro has better images than that.

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

I haven't been to excited about any 1" camera and all of them looks worse than any m4/3 camera.

 

[Michael Thames]

Gopro has better images than that.

A little premature, don't you think?

 

[Michael Thames]

I haven't been to excited about any 1" camera and all of them looks worse than any m4/3 camera.

Never liked the image of the GH4...... that's probably why I never bought one. The problem with 4K cameras is they tend to look "vidioish" at least consumer cameras like the GH4. Looking forward to seeing more footage of this new one.

 

[TheDingo]

The problem with 4K cameras is they tend to look "vidioish" at least consumer cameras like the GH4

It all comes down to camera setting and how you treat your footage in post. I've seen horrible garish color from the GH4 ( and from many other brands of cameras too ), and I've seen absolutely gorgeous mouth watering footage from people that know how to make this camera sing.

Things might improve once we have V-log for the GH4, but I strongly suspect you will still have to master the camera to get a good "cine" image out of it.

 

[delete]

Pics of the 64GB CFAST card and Reader that's being packaged with the XC10

Pics of the 64GB CFAST card and Reader that's being packaged with the XC10

Pics of the 64GB CFAST card and Reader that's being packaged with the XC10 for $2499

 

[brettsherman]

I'm weirdly intrigued by this camera. Personally I think it would be a decent B or C-cam when doing corporate work such as interviews. To me this could replace something like the pocket cam

Darn it Canon. This is not the camera I wanted and it's probably slightly over-priced, but I'm probably going to buy it anyways. I often need a small B-cam for 1 man / 2 camera situations. And to have a small cam to put on a gimbal. I have a GH4 and found it not that useful as a B-cam. Poor low-light performance, unpleasing picture and its very hard to get a match with my C300. A C100 mkI is tempting, but lack of built-in mic on the body, poor LCF/viewfinder, and comparatively larger size and weight make it less desirable.

I'm not going to go into what all I would want on the camera. But it shoots C-log and WideDR and sounds like high ISO performance might be comparable to the C300 (I'll wait for sample clips to verify that). For a fixed lens, zoom range is okay, I'd have prefered 24-240mm especially for use on a gimbal. But it's just good enough and not too far out of the price range for me to get it. Darn it Canon!

P.S. What's with the idiotic headphone jack placement. So you can't shoot handheld and monitor audio at the same time?

 

[dustylense]

LOL, everybody is judging the image by a SINGLE video released. Come on man. Probably a pre-production FW too. We don't know the level of shooter here. No idea of the camera settings. Let more videos come about before rush to judgement.

 

[jb.]

I have a GH4 and found it not that useful as a B-cam. Poor low-light performance ... sounds like high ISO performance might be comparable to the C300

Unless Canon did something REALLY amazing, I can't imagine a 1" 12MP sensor having anywhere near the low light performance of a S35 8MP sensor.

 

[brettsherman]

Unless Canon did something REALLY amazing, I can't imagine a 1" 12MP sensor having anywhere near the low light performance of a S35 8MP sensor.

I should have said "more comparable than the GH4." The C300 sensor is what 3 years old now. This could be newer tech with image sensor and noise-reduction processing. You might be right, but they put the ISO up to 20,000 for a reason. I can't imagine they'd have it that high if it wasn't useable at 12,800. I will reserve judgement until I see some samples.

 

[SlyCooper]

This seems like a brilliant camera for journalists. Low-profile, high bitrate, gets the job done.

 

[philiplipetz]

Finally, my 1000th post. So, I give this brain dump about the XC10.

For people who have been using a 4:2:0 camera the difference in Canon's 8 bit 4:2:2 color implementations is significant. Our nonprofit used to have a Canon XF100, really rotten resolution, but the colors were magnificent and the 4:2:2 made them easier to grade and compress. The XC10 will also have 10 bit 4:2:2 4K output to Atomos Shogun 4K recorders for those time when you want the absolute best color.

Canon is well known for color science. I have never understood why people obsess about other features when the delivered image is what ultimately matters. Our C100s deliver outstounding results from a 8 bit 4:2:0 color space, however, we had to use an external Ninja recorder to get 8 bit 4:2:2 when we were doing critical work that will be heavily graded. Perhaps we will not have to do that with the XC10.

Is it a pro camera? It is much better than the cheaper all-in-ones, with the XC10 having button layouts that more closely resemble those found on our C100s that make those cameras a joy to use. Which brings up another issue - ease of use. We have filmmaker blog darlings such as the Sony A7s, but when I don't have the time to do fussy setup I always grab a C100. Will the A7s do more, does it have much better low light, does it deliver more filmlike DOF? Yes, but that is not what always matters when I am doing a million things at the same time. Not when I want to have the colors I like straight off the card. Canon's wide DR setting is amazing.

Several open questions remain about the XC10. Was the Paris video really the best it could do? What are the low light limits? How good is the in camera oversampling as it reduces 4K to HD formats. (We will probably mainly use the XC10 as a 4:2:2 HD camera for web delivery.) Is audio adjustable and are there audio meters? Will CFast 2 cards become affordable? Or is the most affordable way to record long 4K sessions is on a Shogun? How good are the remote control capabilities?

Finally, for those complain about the price please remember that the kit includes a Sandisk 64Gb CFast 2 card and a card reader. this a $450 dollar value at actual retail sales prices. this lowers the real cost of only the body. My guess is that as usual the actual retail sales price will be about 20% less than the $2500 list price, bringing the price of the camera alone into the mid 1000s. For this you get better layout, and better color space.

If you want to complain then question the decision to use CFast cards rather than one of the recent hyper speed third generation SD cards. That is an expensive decision. SO why did Canon do that? The Canon C300 Mkii uses CFast cards. It may not be an accident that the C300 MKii and the XC10 were announced in the same press release. They are positioning the XC10 as a B, or more likely C, camera to the C300 MKii so it makes sense to have card compatibility.

 

[jb.]

I should have said "more comparable than the GH4." The C300 sensor is what 3 years old now. This could be newer tech with image sensor and noise-reduction processing. You might be right, but they put the ISO up to 20,000 for a reason. I can't imagine they'd have it that high if it wasn't useable at 12,800. I will reserve judgement until I see some samples.

The C100 Mark II goes up to 80,000. I'd use it at 12,800 if I had to but I prefer to stay lower than that. I don't think it's a given that the XC10 will be usable at 12,800 just because they let it go to 20,000.

I think you're either going to lose a TON of detail or have a TON of noise at 12,800 on a 1" sensor camera. I may be proven wrong, but judging by all of the other 1" sensors running around, I don't think so.

 

[TSDavis]

Granted, the camera will have definite limitations with a 1" sensor. No one is denying that. Heck, I'm not super-duper thrilled but at the same time, there are moments where I would prefer to have less DoF for Run-n-gun scenarios.

As far as C.Fast, I believe that's where reliable media is heading and I welcome the per-gig cost way more than the Red media I once paid for. Man, talk about expensive. The nice part is though, it's not proprietary like Redmags. So you can have several different cameras or recorders essentially sharing the same media.

I'd like to hold one in my hands, because for me I think it would be a great camera for doing documentary work. Especially when outside of the country. However, only time will tell and I would love to see them post more videos produced with the lil sucker. On a different note, I'm surprised they haven't released a video showing off the new c300 mkii 's capabilities.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

I want you all to take a deep long look at that 4:2:2 spec. Take a deep look on the XF 50mbps 4:2:2 1080p codec included. and why 4K is 4:2:2 >50mbps on this small camera, internally.


CNN/BBC a European broadcasters infect the world. Remember I told you this in just a month. Canon are very clever at playing this specific game, from the days of the XF305, to C300, to XC10.

 

[philiplipetz]

I want you all to take a deep long look at that 4:2:2 spec. Take a deep look on the XF 50mbps 4:2:2 1080p codec included. and why 4K is 4:2:2 >50mbps on this small camera, internally.


CNN/BBC a European broadcasters infect the world. Remember I told you this in just a month. Canon are very clever at playing this specific game, from the days of the XF305, to C300, to XC10.

Exactly, we do work in Europe, and the XC10 is the cheapest solution with good work flow and color. We need to meet these standards. It does not matter if they really need 50mbps and 4:2:2 we have to meet that standard.