Canon response on cinema5D

sounds like people are buying these as video cams thinking they're gonna get 35mm DOF from them. if these cams' video modes gave us such a treat, noone would buy video cams. you were uneducated, and led to believe what you wanted to believe about this DSLR....sorry. buy a video camera if that's what you want.

Chris
www.vimeo.com/chrislight
 
skinny! said:
sounds like people are buying these as video cams thinking they're gonna get 35mm DOF from them.
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Which you do. No one has complained about a lack of DOF.

skinny! said:
if these cams' video modes gave us such a treat . .
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Which they do.

skinny! said:
noone would buy video cams.
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Yes they would, not everyone needs interchangeable lenses, shallow DOF and low light capabilities and some would be better off with a cheaper video camera.


skinny! said:
you were uneducated, and led to believe what you wanted to believe about this DSLR....sorry. buy a video camera if that's what you want.
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So we want "35mm DOF" (which the 5D does very well) and your suggestion is to buy a video camera (which does not provide a "35mm DOF").

Great advice ! :grin:


Not read such a lovely misinformed and confused post for a while, thanks for the laugh I needed that. :grin: :grin:
 
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skinny! said:
sounds like people are buying these as video cams thinking they're gonna get 35mm DOF from them. if these cams' video modes gave us such a treat, noone would buy video cams. you were uneducated, and led to believe what you wanted to believe about this DSLR....sorry. buy a video camera if that's what you want.

Chris
www.vimeo.com/chrislight
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I'm with Lee on this. The 5D Mark II gives better 35mm DOF performance than any camera + 35mm adapter combo. Period. There is not even a debate about that.

Plus it has unrivaled low light DOF. The low light performance is even better than RED.

Skinny, dude, you can question my education if it makes you feel better about yourself, but it doesn't change that fact that video cameras, especially Canon's line of HD cameras are not that great compared to Panasonic or Sony. And by crippling their 5D Mark II, they are going to quickly loose what could have been market dominance in the DSLR world for filmmakers.

I can tell you from the photography angle, if they keep undercutting their top-line professional cameras, they are going to create a lot of animosity and have more people buying Nikon.
 
I don't think is uneducation, i think is just dreaming...

The camera gives incredible images, i am thinking seriously to sell my EX1 and get the Canon 5D M2, (i am DOP so i could make sense) but i know there is not going to be firmware upgrade.

It is more about what Canon wants, they have always cripple their cameras while they are already working on a new model, the thing is that it never has been so obvious as now (adding manual controls and different frame rates is so easy...)

So there it is is Canon selling a DSLR that records HD gorgeous video, and us wanting more from the camera... It is a DSLR even if it records great HD.
 
herminiocordido said:
The problem is that the current Canon video customer that got the 5D M2 are forcing themselves to believe that this is a HD video camera and Canon on the other hand is saying that it is a Still camera.

When Canon comes out with an *HD video camera* full frame, manual controls and interchangeable lenses, i would like to see if those "unhappy" customers are not going to jump on the new beast.

Anyway, as i said, you can wait for whatever you want... but you better wait seated
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If the new beast is 8 grand, i'm not jumping on a damn thing for what this does for 2600. Everything we do as indies is a work around no matter how much technology advances we still never get the "total package" for under 10 grand. And yet Crank 2 was shot on an xh-a1 and hf10's (which need to have the exposure locked to prevent gain and grain). If you can't shoot a quality production on this and you already possess the other skills needed to shoot then something is very off. So having owned quite a few adapters and cameras i'm gonna say this is an HD Video camera that presents a new set of problems but performs better than any i've owned since I get a.) to use whatever lens I want without loosing extra light on the zoom in/gg combo. and b.) it looks better than any i've seen except the big dawg Red One which is way out of my budgetary consideration.
 
cinebuddy said:
If the new beast is 8 grand, i'm not jumping on a damn thing for what this does for 2600. Everything we do as indies is a work around no matter how much technology advances we still never get the "total package" for under 10 grand. And yet Crank 2 was shot on an xh-a1 and hf10's (which need to have the exposure locked to prevent gain and grain). If you can't shoot a quality production on this and you already possess the other skills needed to shoot then something is very off. So having owned quite a few adapters and cameras i'm gonna say this is an HD Video camera that presents a new set of problems but performs better than any i've owned since I get a.) to use whatever lens I want without loosing extra light on the zoom in/gg combo. and b.) it looks better than any i've seen except the big dawg Red One which is way out of my budgetary consideration.
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That is exactly what i am talking about... you are still thinking it is an HD video camera, which is NOT (Canon words)
It doesn't matter what you want the camera to be, it is what it is.
Again, i know that the results are stunning, and the best yet for a 2600$ camera, but if the manufacturer wants to cripple it down, because they want their other share of the market to remain untoched by their own product, then they decide what the camera is.

I think Canon is more like: "i think we open the pandora box with this 5D thing, we should have cripple it a little more"

Than: "oh people like the 5D, lets work hard on the firmware to take the video industry by storm..."

You just need to open your eyes to what capitalism is.
 
herminiocordido said:
That is exactly what i am talking about... you are still thinking it is an HD video camera, which is NOT (Canon words)
It doesn't matter what you want the camera to be, it is what it is.
Again, i know that the results are stunning, and the best yet for a 2600$ camera, but if the manufacturer wants to cripple it down, because they want their other share of the market to remain untoched by their own product, then they decide what the camera is.

I think Canon is more like: "i think we open the pandora box with this 5D thing, we should have cripple it a little more"

Than: "oh people like the 5D, lets work hard on the firmware to take the video industry by storm..."

You just need to open your eyes to what capitalism is.
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The only problem if canon is just making the 5d with an added bonus of the 1080p video is that they ARE marketting it as a major feature. Check for yourself on their web page being it is the second thing even mentioned on features of the camera.

right from the features page (see the second one):

"Features
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21.1 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS sensor, 14-bit A/D conversion (16,384 colors/each of 3 primary color), wide range ISO setting of 100-6400 (expandable L: 50, H1: 12800 and H2: 25600).
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Full HD Video capture at 1920 x 1080 resolution for up to 4GB per clip with HDMI output for HD viewing of stills and video.
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Next generation DIGIC 4 Image Processor for faster processing of fine detail and color reproduction as well as reduced image noise.
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High performance with 3.9 fps continuous shooting, new shutter with a durability of 150,000 cycles and improved weather-resistant body.
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Live View Function for stills (Quick, Live and Face Detection AF modes) and video.
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3.0-inch Clear View LCD (920,000 dots/VGA) monitor with anti-reflective and scratch-resistant coatings for improved viewing and smudge protection.
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Updated EOS Integrated Cleaning System specifically designed to work with a full-frame sensor.
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Compatible with over 60 Canon EF Lenses and most EOS System accessories.


"

I have had a HVX200 w/letus extreme adapter, and now have a 5d mark II. The 5d takes sharper video (by a long shot) than an HVX with a 35mm adapter, better color in my opinion (to each their own though, that is all opinion) and superior low light recording. What even comes close to this camera in terms of something with a full frame sensor that does not pixel shift...think about it...you are taking a 20 megapixel sensor and downsampling to a 1080p signal not the other way around like some video cameras do. It is a spectacular video camera and very impressive still camera as well.

Canon claimed in an interview about why they left out all the advanced features is that most people who would be using it would not know how to use these features and are an amateur user. I would agree if this was the digital rebel but most of the manual features are the same in video as they are in taking the photos. I can't speak for all here but I don't use any presets on my 5d and shoot everything full manual anyway. If you want fluff and presets to shoot all your photos you get a 40d/50d possibly or most likely one of the digital rebel cameras... so I have to strongly disagree with their assumptions that their buyers are as dumb as rocks when it comes to manually controlling the settings.

As others have said with the camera though, you can by ND filters to adjust how the camera behaves and you can roll the large dial on the back to adjust exposure up and down a little or get a nikon adapter. For what the camera is though, it does take spectacular video regardless, i just wish they had a way to keep the same settings on the control dial up top like manual mode to function the same in video (which would make the most sense). As for 24p you can convert the footage to 24p (play back faster and drop in 24p project at 125% speed I beleive...it's late ...I am not doing math lol) but for anything faster than 30 it may not happen being the cards barely can keep up with the data being written at 30.

now what would be nice would be timelapse or lower frame rates which in theory should be easier to do, who knows what they have in store for us. I have a feeling they may add some slight manual controls down the road but I wouldn't hold your breath too much,
 
raelic said:
The only problem if canon is just making the 5d with an added bonus of the 1080p video is that they ARE marketting it as a major feature.
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Indeed ! They (favourably) compare the 1080p video mode to professional video cameras in their promotional literature.


raelic said:
. . . . you are taking a 20 megapixel sensor and downsampling to a 1080p signal
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A 20MP image is never generated (and certainly never downsampled), the video mode simply employs only enough photosites to generate the 1080p - skipping most of the 20MP.


raelic said:
Canon claimed in an interview about why they left out all the advanced features is that most people who would be using it would not know how to use these features and are an amateur user. I would agree if this was the digital rebel but most of the manual features are the same in video as they are in taking the photos.
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Again I completely agree, it is silly to suggest someone should have full access to ISO, shutter speed and aperture in still mode - but flicking over to video mode would see them undergo a kind of temporary lobotomy , leaving people confused wondering what these controls might possibly be for.
:crybaby::)
 
no quesion about this camera having a better image than that of the ex1, hvx, and canon a1. I just imported some footage i shot the other day, and all I can say is the workaround for me is worth the image that beats my hvx 200a into the ground.

Would 24p and manual controls have crippled the sales of some of their 1/3 chip video cams? maybe so maybe not, but for indi filmakers who use the cam solely for artistic purposes would have never looked back.

I personely think that all the major players have made a deal to not introduce such a well put together camera slr, until they have offloaded the remaining scraps of a quickly dying technology.
Think about it, for these companies to to introduce such a cam that would mean one less sale of their light sucking 24p, 1/3 chip, cameras they continue to pond off on us.

So this is the deal for me. As we discussed before, their are workarounds for just about all of these low cost cameras we use to achieve our film look, whether it be loosing light on a 35mm adapters and needing a bigger lighting package, or longer render times in post trying to convert 30 to 24p. Choose your poison. I decided they are all a workaround to achieve a similar goal but image factos have puhsed my decision in favor of the 5d which yeilds jaw dropping images under bad lighting situations.
 
reem12 said:
I personely think that all the major players have made a deal to not introduce such a well put together camera slr, until they have offloaded the remaining scraps of a quickly dying technology.
Think about it, for these companies to to introduce such a cam that would mean one less sale of their light sucking 24p, 1/3 chip, cameras they continue to pond off on us.
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Word up!!!! Its like cable or cell phone service...each company is missing something to make it the perfect buy.
 
I tried your tip and it worked. Who knew it would be that simple?

Ahh, the pleasure of manual control in video mode is satisfying.

Thanks Lee!
 
dudes... the 5d mkii is a dslr.

dont be pissed off because they didnt cater to your every whim.

They are a business, and they are protecting their video line.

If they didint protect their investments and make money at it... then we wouldnt have the amazing high resolution video cameras and stunning DSLR's that we all have now.

I swear i would be so pissed if canon lost money and didnt keep improving their SLR line....
 
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