Canon R5 Announced with 8k

[NorBro]

Right, but the pocket 4k has HDMI out the left as well and it's a dedicated video camera (albeit a cheap one). The S1H also has HDMI out the left.

Personally, I would love it if Canon built a mirrorless-sized body SOLELY for video use, but I don't see it happening. (Perhaps we can count the Canon ME-200S-SH multi-purpose camera which is a 4.5" cube and has HDMI/SDI ports on the back.)

I think James' point was just that the design irks him, for his purposes it could be improved, and wouldn't that benefit us all and sell more units to video people.

No, there is no improvement! We keep circling around...and around.

This is it! At least on this type of camera. [JB narrowed it down pretty well.]

No adapters, no hubs, no rewiring. You want all of that then it needs to be another camera. Different classification. Department. And I'm on board with that.

A Blackmagic is for a very specific person. A Z Cam, a Kinefinity, Ikonoskop, Digital Bolex...very specific user bases. (Half of the people using the R5 won't know the camera has an HDMI output!)

I know what James wants. I wanted to change hundreds of things on cameras over the past decade. I have criticized every single thing I used and think 80% of cameras on the market are overpriced pieces of junk.

But this is just simple corporate logic and design. You will need a different type of camera to discuss HDMI port changes.

 

[Guest]

No, there is no improvement! We keep circling around...and around.

This is it! At least on this type of camera.

Half of the people using this type of camera don't know the camera has an HDMI output.

A Blackmagic is for a very specific person. A Z Cam, a Kinefinity, a Ikonoskop, Digital Bolex...very specific user bases.

I know what James wants. I wanted to change hundreds of things on cameras over the past decade. I have criticized every single thing ever made and think 80% of cameras on the market are overpriced pieces of junk.

But this is just simple corporate logic and design. You will need a different type of camera to discuss these changes.

You can't pretend the mirrorless and dslr ergonomic shape wasn't a resounding success with video professionals and hobbyists alike. These are niche requests. Even BM copied the DSLR so well they put the HDMI in sticking out the side.

Also, I am so tired justifying the corporate interests on these boards. This is DVXuser, not DVXseller.

 

[NorBro]

Because they most likely had no other choice for the design and price! That's how most of the boards in these stills cameras are arranged. The HDMI sticks out to the side.

The DSLR/mirrorless form factor is a runaway success, but that doesn't mean HDMI awareness is.

With half of them it's maybe soldered onto a main board that has other functions. (I don't know if that's true with many cameras, but that is true in general with electronics.)

 

[NorBro]

The old BMPCC has the micro HDMI on the board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4_7j51o8w

You can see it after the 3-minute mark (silver port).

And the general camera designs and board arrangements have probably been very similar for the last 15 years in small handheld stills cameras.

 

[Guest]

The Sony F35 video card has the video monitor out put sticking out towards the operator side. They use internal cables to re route it back out to the dumb side. There is no law of nature that forces us to use prefab boards and strictly adhere to where the generic video out is placed.

 

[NorBro]

Well, it's 10x bigger and a cinema camera, lol. :huh:

Around and around...

You want to buy a two-seater and then you ask where the back seats are...

(I don't know anything about cars.)

 

[Guest]

Well, it's 10x bigger and a cinema camera, lol. :huh:

Around and around...

You want to buy a two-seater and then you ask where the back seats are...

(I don't know anything about cars.)

They’re actually really tiny wires. But never mind.

We’ve already agreed on these points:

- dslr/mirroless ergonomic shape was a big hit with film makers.
- mirrorless body shape is one of the best shapes for gimbal work because it doesn’t add much length behind the lens, allowing for more optimal balance and clearance.
- many video people do not like the HDMI port placement, but put up with it
- ergonomics are very important to film makers


If you want to stress how corporate interests will prevent improvements for film makers, i say these corporations are interested in making products for the customer.

 

[DLD]

Pyrotechnically speaking, a 5G signal can deliver a 1 Gbps signal over short distances. Maybe, at some point, it will become an HDMI substitute.

 

[Guest]

Pyrotechnically speaking, a 5G signal can deliver a 1 Gbps signal over short distances. Maybe, at some point, it will become an HDMI substitute.

Definitely will be the way to go eventually. How far out is reliable wireless tech? Even teradek isn’t perfect, and those units heat up.

 

[Guest]

I find the amount of expense and hurdles to get functionality out of these little cams is amazing. But even after a decade of popularity amongst film makers new and old, they are viewed as a risk?

Actually, i’d say Panasonic has done a good job, and perhaps the first honest attempt at a hybrid with the S1H ans GH series. But would be great to see a video centric version.

Also, all these hot shoe add ons make me laugh. They could just build the i/o hub into the top of the camera. Wouldn’t have to be full size xlr, but could be where the audio and video connects:

 

[yoclay]

Hey guys. It's not rocket science.
All you need is an accessory box which turns all of your connections into a right angle adapter.
That way it doesn't stick in your ear if you go shoulder held and pushes all of your cabling behind the camera.
You could even have a full HDMI connection and XLR input if you so chose.
Sony already provides a plastic cable saver for their A7 series. Lockport makes a right angle adapter for years now.
A-Box makes an XLR from 3.5mm jack adapter. There are a million possibilities without having to reroute the cameras internals.
The real issue is that cameras life spans are only 1-2 years now.
So the accessory market that makes a serious close fitting adapter only has a short window to make a profit.

 

[Guest]

Hey guys. It's not rocket science.
All you need is an accessory box which turns all of your connections into a right angle adapter.
That way it doesn't stick in your ear if you go shoulder held and pushes all of your cabling behind the camera.
You could even have a full HDMI connection and XLR input if you so chose.
Sony already provides a plastic cable saver for their A7 series. Lockport makes a right angle adapter for years now.
A-Box makes an XLR from 3.5mm jack adapter. There are a million possibilities without having to reroute the cameras internals.
The real issue is that cameras life spans are only 1-2 years now.
So the accessory market that makes a serious close fitting adapter only has a short window to make a profit.

I had a cage and right adapters. But the cage took away the sculpted hand grip. If i am going caged, i’d rather just shoot dsmc or Canon C

 

[Guest]

The real issue is that cameras life spans are only 1-2 years now.
So the accessory market that makes a serious close fitting adapter only has a short window to make a profit.

All the more reason to have a video centric model. Hunting down aks to make a stills camera or hybrid work, just seems redundant.

Sony could make the VG900 again, but that would work NOT well with gimbals like the Ronin S.

At some point they have to realize video people need a modern video camera.

 

[yoclay]

I had a cage and right adapters. But the cage took away the sculpted hand grip. If i am going caged, i’d rather just shoot dsmc or Canon C

Well what do you need HDMI out for ?
Is it for a screen/recorder ? Then you are probably not going to want to put it on a flimsy hotshoe. So a cage or another camera makes more sense anyhow.
The point is that most manufacturers are pushing for better screens and viewfinders on the cameras anyhow. If you are going towards something external HDMI, you are going to need support gear, in which case the managability of the port is a minor issue.

I might add that the A7 series cable lock does not require a cage by the way. It is not right angle, but there is no reason why it couldn't be.

 

[Guest]

Not really wanting a hybrid, so there wouldn’t be a hotshoe, or even a cold shoe. Would ideally have some 1/4-20 holes or something.

 

[ahalpert]

They should put a 1/4-20 thread in the hotshoe. Anyone done that?

Part of the issue with relying on the on-camera monitor is it will always be small. Except on the pocket 4k/6k, though there it's fixed-angle to stay cheap (I assume).

The inelegant solution to your problem is probably to gaff tape a right-angle adapter to the side.

 

[DLD]

Definitely will be the way to go eventually. How far out is reliable wireless tech? Even teradek isn’t perfect, and those units heat up.

Well, WiFi is fast enough. Netgear is claiming 4.6 Gbps but those are fairly big boxes. 5G is just coming out and the chips are small enough to fit inside smartphones. The problem with 5G is that it must be registered and the market for it isn't likely to be sufficient to warrant these built-in transmitters inside the consumer tier cameras.

So, cages it is.

 

[John Brawley]

I just see more problems or moving the same problem around.

Left side from EVF is the same problem. Cable is running out the side of the camera except now you can’t use the valuable real estate under the plug (currently where you turn on the R5 I think)

From the front facing out towards a lens seems problematic. Connectors plus cable to be sent towards the lens ? Wide lenses might start seeing cables. It has to snake back somehow. It might foul on lens rods (often top mounted) and External focus motors.

Right side of EVF is again a similar issue. Steals valuable user real estate (currently a status screen for camera variables) and again has to be managed.

All these alternatives seem to send the HDMI out into space. With a well organised side option the cable can be kept near and neat close the camera. Any loop of HDMI floating in the wind is asking to get caught on something. HDMI can’t even support its own weight as a connector.

The best solution on this form factor really has been the Panny integrated expansion base the stupidly named YAGH. (Also crazy expensive...and massive)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...c_dmc_gh4_yagh_lumix_yagh_interface_unit.html

 

[Guest]

If it is a video first design, there can be other changes as well.

The operator side panel can be for some essential controls, instead of ports. Reducing the need for the top dial, which tends to be a stills feature more than a video one.

 

[Guest]

Well, WiFi is fast enough. Netgear is claiming 4.6 Gbps but those are fairly big boxes. 5G is just coming out and the chips are small enough to fit inside smartphones. The problem with 5G is that it must be registered and the market for it isn't likely to be sufficient to warrant these built-in transmitters inside the consumer tier cameras.

So, cages it is.

Fast enough, is one thing, Reliability is another. I’ve not experience a wireless system that is rock solid yet. Not to mention most wireless units produce heat, which on such a small camera could be an issue for the sensor. But if they solve reliability and heat issues, then wireless would be a dream.