Canon R5 Announced with 8k

ahalpert said:
Yeah I liked that one too. Looked perfectly natural to me. I think the same guy's results with the R5 were perhaps more beautiful, but I dont think anyone would complain if you handed off footage that looked like his A7SIII video.

The problem is that I've only seen 2 a7siii videos that I liked the look of. And the 2nd one looked over sharpened - a lot of the A7SIII stuff looks sharpened. So, it's worrisome that I've seen so many samples that people put a lot of time into that are so-so or hit-and-miss with their colors

Whereas with the R5 basically everything looks great. Skin tones always look great. Some stuff I've seen was graded too contrasty and really crushed the shadows. But it seems like a camera that's hard to make look bad, aside from its current DR limitations
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I agree that I have not been really impressed with what I have seen of the A7SIII so far, but I'm waiting till I can finally color grade some footage myself in Resolve before I decide on how I feel about it. I'm hoping that we can soon get some well exposed footage of skintones (both internal and ProRes Raw) soon. There were some good and some not so great looking Canon R5 footage, but after I played around with the files in Resolve, I was convinced about how good that camera is. The Canon R5 has some really robust files, colors, and the footage could be taken in any direction. There wasn't anything that I typically do with R3D, BRAW or any other RAW or at least 10-bit 4:2:2 footage that I couldn't do with the Canon R5 footage (of course dynamic varies across the cameras, so that is assuming that nothing is clipped).

Overheating and micro-HDMI issues aside, the R5 is really, really good! Micro-HDMI, I can begrudgingly work around as I owned the original Blackmagic Pocket Camera with the worst micro-HDMI input ever. However, I'm still waiting to see how the overheating issues eventually play out as there is no rush for me.

As far as how different grades affect how we feel about the footage, a good example are how Matti and Daniel both graded the same A7SIII footage differently (see below). And I agree with you, I liked how Matti's footage looked.

Matti's Version:
https://youtu.be/h9OxG1eEeGg?t=73

Daniel's Version:
https://youtu.be/kHJ5rfnuLA4?t=38
 
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R5 is, slightly exaggerating, a 4K RGB camera. AS7III is a 4K Bayer camera. 33 MPX vs. 8.8.

That said, Sony Log should be sufficiently malleable in terms of colors.
 
ahalpert said:
Hey NorBro - if you have time - I'd be curious to see a sample of the FF HD 60p and also I'd love to know if that mode overheats within an hour. I'd give you a big, fat upvote!

I'm still trying to figure out if I could come up with a recipe to make this camera work for me...something like shoot 4KHQ selectively or shoot it until I get a temperature warning and then drop the quality... Not ideal - but usually in the shooting situations where I want maximum quality and detail, I can afford to shoot on and off and probably stay within the heat limits. And the situations where I need to roll continuously are usually somewhat less IQ-demanding or even mandate HD.
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drummondb said:
I humbly second this request. FHD 60P. You might even export it in 1440p or 4K if you're feeling crazy. Youtube automatically uses it's better codec if the upload is 1440 or 4K. The lowly old C100 still looks quite nice if upscaled to 4K on YouTube.
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(1) 50 minute HD/60p test. 30 minute + 20 minute (battery was @50% when starting). I doubt the camera will ever overheat in this mode. The first 30 minutes = WS (24mm), and the last 20 minutes = CU (105mm). Quickly changed the focal length & framing after the recording limit and then continued rolling. Compressed to keep the file size down.

(2) HD/60p upscaling test. (HD/60p placed inside a UHD/60p timeline and exported). First minute of WS. First minute of CU. File is UHD/60p.

(3) 8K/24p ALL-I ...for reference.

Bottom line for me: I don't ever see Canon providing us nice HD in the hybrid cameras, but the mode is there for 60p safety if needed.

A little crushed, but I didn't spend any time on it. Tons of information is there in the 8K.

___

ahalpert said:
Canon might be able to fix the R5 IBIS wobbles but I doubt that Sony could make their IBIS more stable.
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Which wobbles? Only ones I've seen were on YouTube @15mm (which is an extreme FF focal length).

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Thanks NorBro! Yes, I meant wobbles @15mm. I was just using it as an example of the type of thing that CAN be fixed through firmware (unlike most things)

PS stunning colors on those clips
 
I posted that 3x in this thread when the other cage was mentioned, haha...I don't have any experience with it though.

But you want to see a camera that overheats...sheesh, that one was a doozy.
 
Maybe the R1 will be twice the price of the R5, twice the weight, and run continuous 8K all day:
49680339322_768c261734.jpg
 
Liam Hall said:
People will still complain and demand an R1X. Yet they still won't have XLR input, NDs, timecode-in, SDI out...
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Haha, yes! Kinda depends on what Canon's marketing is. If they try to sell it as a pro video tool competing with the Panasonic S1H and a7s3, then probably folks will ask for timecode and XLRs at least :)

In the marketing and the live stream, Canon pushed the R5 as a reliable 8K video tool, hence the backlash. They didn't say "now you can even record short bursts of 8K", they pushed it as a key feature.

If you go and re-read the initial announcement, the first thing they talk about is 8K video recording. After that they talk about reliability.

And now people are trying to put these two things together and going "huh?"

From Canon's own press release announcing the R5 development:

"The new full-frame mirrorless camera currently under development will fully leverage the advantages of the EOS R System, helping to produce a camera that features high-speed continuous shooting and 8K video recording. Furthermore, the camera will provide photographers with more efficient workflows thanks to improved transmission functionality, operability and reliability. These enhancements, along with many others, will help to further elevate and solidify the EOS Series concept of “Speed, Comfort and High-Image-Quality."

They set themselves up for a fall in my opinion.

Reference:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/80221...nt-of-eos-r5-with-8k-video-and-20fps-shooting

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
JonsMovies said:
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but have there been any real world tests yet of the 4K S35 crop mode which is not supposed to overheat? For documentaries, I find this mode compelling enough to consider the camera but need confirmation that 1) the 5.1K oversampled image is as good as the full frame HQ mode and 2) the camera performs flawlessly in 4K 24p crop mode without overheating. If both hold true, I'll once again consider the R5 for video work.
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This. I would like to know too. ( I dont understand why DPreview didt try to test the crop mode as an escape-go-to-bulk-mode. )
Ive written it before, using the R with Metabones RF-EF Speedbooster works fine, a 24-105 f4 ”becomes” a 29-126 f2,8 and thus creates a somewhat FF look too.
The method would surely be useful for documentary (for me) if it really makes the R5 unaffected by heat and the quality of the footage is good.
Almost as sharp as FFHQ? (seems to in NorBros test)
More noise? (ahalpert - is it something you have seen elesewhere too)
How is the DR compared to A7siii?
Questions I would like to have answers too...
NorBro - what do you think?

Thanks!
 
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The 5.1K sample definitely looks similar to the HQ.

I'm not sure about noise. Although my 1000% zoom test (page 229 here) may have shown more noise in the 4K crop, I don't know if it's something you'll really be affected by when you're out shooting content, especially with fast glass, and especially outside. That was a 1000% zoom, you know?

[Most of us have used much noisier cameras in our lives. And the SB should help you a bit there too.]

I haven't had any overheating with the 24p 5.1K (not sure about 30p), but the camera will eventually overheat with the 60p (eventually).

I haven't watched any a7SIII videos besides the initial B&H launch so I'm not sure how the DR compares, but the Canon's has been great for me. (That's probably not that helpful but I don't care too much about DR numbers/analysis, and I'm more interested in the overall package, which includes how the camera generally looks and grades.)
 
ahalpert said:
Maybe 8K is the new thing. Looks like theres an 8K drone out now too, the autel evo ii - Gordon laing has a sample: https://vimeo.com/444196554
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this looks really good.

vimeo @ 4k never seems to play smooth for me though unless it completely buffers in the full clip. 2012 mac pro 12 core / 64gb / Titan X 12gb / 42.5" Dell 4k / High Sierra. anyone else have issues with Vimeo and 4k? i can play 8k clips on youtube no problem.

im only seeing a 4k option in my vimeo player and not 8k but it still looks pristine. $1,500 ish. dont know much about this company but need to check it out.

david
 
bruceallen said:
They set themselves up for a fall in my opinion.
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For sure. I get that.

Pre-release hype gets worse every year. I can't stand it. It's one thing when it's 2007 and you're a start-up like Red, quite different when you are an established international industrial giant.
 
NorBro said:
The 5.1K sample definitely looks similar to the HQ.

I'm not sure about noise. Although my 1000% zoom test (page 229 here) may have shown more noise in the 4K crop, I don't know if it's something you'll really be affected by when you're out shooting content, especially with fast glass, and especially outside. That was a 1000% zoom, you know?

[Most of us have used much noisier cameras in our lives. And the SB should help you a bit there too.]

I haven't had any overheating with the 24p 5.1K (not sure about 30p), but the camera will eventually overheat with the 60p (eventually).

I haven't watched any a7SIII videos besides the initial B&H launch so I'm not sure how the DR compares, but the Canon's has been great for me. (That's probably not that helpful but I don't care too much about DR numbers/analysis, and I'm more interested in the overall package, which includes how the camera generally looks and grades.)
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Thanks for the reply, seems encouraging with the 5,1 os crop mode.
Regarding DR, well yes its of course a personal preference as well, Highlight roll-off whatever that actually is, feels even more important. I remember going from C100 to GH5 (or maybe GH4) to A7r2 filming the same room for a doc, and the same table lamp appeared so different, totally blown out with the pana, fine gradient with the (8bit!) sony...and later also with the C300m2.
I would like to keep those smooth light transistions if possible... Should be a nice shootout BTW.
 
david_p said:
this looks really good.

vimeo @ 4k never seems to play smooth for me though unless it completely buffers in the full clip. 2012 mac pro 12 core / 64gb / Titan X 12gb / 42.5" Dell 4k / High Sierra. anyone else have issues with Vimeo and 4k? i can play 8k clips on youtube no problem.

im only seeing a 4k option in my vimeo player and not 8k but it still looks pristine. $1,500 ish. dont know much about this company but need to check it out.

david
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He lets you download the original 8K file on the vimeo page!!

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma... 8k - Page 59&txt=https://vimeo.com/444196554
 
Vino said:
This. I would like to know too. ( I dont understand why DPreview didt try to test the crop mode as an escape-go-to-bulk-mode. )
Ive written it before, using the R with Metabones RF-EF Speedbooster works fine, a 24-105 f4 ”becomes” a 29-126 f2,8 and thus creates a somewhat FF look too.
The method would surely be useful for documentary (for me) if it really makes the R5 unaffected by heat and the quality of the footage is good.
Almost as sharp as FFHQ? (seems to in NorBros test)
More noise? (ahalpert - is it something you have seen elesewhere too)
How is the DR compared to A7siii?
Questions I would like to have answers too...
NorBro - what do you think?

Thanks!
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My only issue with using a speedbooster (aside from an unacceptable purple veiling flare I once experienced under really strong backlighting) is the autofocus. I doubt the metabones will maintain AF performance but I'd love to be proven wrong. Also, Canon may come out with their own speedbooster which would allay my concerns.

But everything I've read suggests that crop 4K24p doesn't overheat, so that's probably how I would shoot interviews with it.

I haven't seen a noise example of crop mode elsewhere but it's bound to be the case because we are enlarging the image. So, it probably has the same amount of noise but now it's larger and therefore more noticeable and therefore one doesn't want to raise the ISO as much. Same thing happens on REDs. A speedbooster would counteract it a bit by letting you lower your ISO

I don't know about the DR of the stills of R5 vs A7SIII, but the video DR of the R5 is limited by the c-log gamma which only records 12 stops of DR maximum. There are rumors that they will give the camera c-log 2 and 3 which would unlock its full DR potential. But 12 stops is still a lot and enough for table lamps in shot
 
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