Canon EOS C300 NEW pricing!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rick Burnett said:
So, what is it that you mean no sensor crop issues?
Click to expand...

If you're shooting 1080p RAW on the Scarlet, you will be using only ~2/3" of the sensor. If you shoot 4k, you're using more sensor area. So, if you record the 4k output to an external recorder at 1080p, you are getting 1080p and still using the full surface of the sensor. I think you get that part...

...but no, I've not read anything official saying what is happening to a 4k or 5k image before it's spit out of the SDI. On the RED One I've heard of guys recording 16:9 1080p to external recorders. I'm sure there are lots of undocumented cases out there of guys using external recorders on EPICs. I assume the same functionality would be handed down to the Scarlet?!

I apologize if this is getting too far off topic...
 
On the Red One, the SDI output was (at least when I owned it) not very high quality. It was a "quick & dirty" de-bayer, I believe is how Red themselves phrased it. Definitely not something worth recording.

On the Epic/Scarlet, I would presume they have much higher-quality outputs; I know that on the 2/3" Scarlet they were planning on having broadcast-quality SDI output on it so I would assume (but this is only an assumption!) that they did the same with the Epic and today's Scarlet. If so, recording the SDI output would be a viable workflow.
 
Mike McNeese said:
If you're shooting 1080p RAW on the Scarlet, you will be using only ~2/3" of the sensor. If you shoot 4k, you're using more sensor area. So, if you record the 4k output to an external recorder at 1080p, you are getting 1080p and still using the full surface of the sensor. I think you get that part...

...but no, I've not read anything official saying what is happening to a 4k or 5k image before it's spit out of the SDI. On the RED One I've heard of guys recording 16:9 1080p to external recorders. I'm sure there are lots of undocumented cases out there of guys using external recorders on EPICs. I assume the same functionality would be handed down to the Scarlet?!

I apologize if this is getting too far off topic...
Click to expand...

I see, you are meaning if you wanted to look at 1080p out of the Scarlet-X directly it would be a significant crop. Understand now.

My point is, with the Scarlet-X, if I understand what I am reading right, if I want to shoot 60p I have to shoot at 2K and if I want to shoot at 24p I can shoot at 4K. Even if you record 1080p out of SDI, each of those will be a different crop of the sensor as the starting point before they are down sampled. I'm not seeing anything that if you don't record internally, that you can use anything different (yet). You still deal with crop if you want to shoot a scene slow motion now, and have to change lens/distance, etc. Also, the 2K is not going to be 2K of resolution either, as now you are VERY CLOSE to 1080p correct? So if a bayer pattern produces 70% resolution (I think that was the number), the results at 60p are going to be softer at 1080p downsample.

And that's all assuming that the debayer and image reduction to SDI is a good quality, which is a big unknown as well.

Given there are a lot of people debating between C300/Scarlet-X/F3 I think this information is good to consider. I hadn't even considered attaching an external recorder to the Scarlet-X actually. I've not read of anyone using the SDI out on the Epic either. I'm not saying this is good or bad, just another thing to consider, like you are, and something some people might not thing about that they might want to consider also. It's just more information to ponder (thanks for bringing it up actually).
 
Jim Martin said:
In the past, Canon, once they set the price, never lowers it. That held true for the XL-1,GL-1, XL-1s, XL-2,GL-2, XL-H1, XH-G1, XH-A1, XL-H1a, XL-H1s, XH-G1s, & XH-A1s. Even when they DQ'd the units, they didn't lower the price. Once in a while, they did offer a rebate but not often.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
Click to expand...

Well at that rate... I just did a euro calculator on the net... came to like 19.4k... saw a plane ticket to France for $500 bucks... stay with my 3rd cousin in Paris... spend $600 bucks for a couple of days and lets see I get a trip toParis... get a camera all for $600 bucks over the US price... unless there's some sort of hidden duty... rather do that... just dreaming... who knows could be going to Ghana next year... get it there... just kidding...
 
Rick Burnett said:
What is the quality like with the internal DeBayer on the camera? I've heard people say it isn't a full quality deBayer, but I don't know what that means. What do you lose?
Click to expand...

i've been following the HD-SDI out to prores very closely as it affects my business decisions. Info that I've found at this point in time is
- full sensor 5k is a full debayer in camera, but only 12 fps
- 4k and quad HD is not a full debayer in camera
- non 16x9 aspect ratios have two black borders on the feed
- 16x9 aspect ratio like quad HD has black borders on all four sides of the feed

I've made numerous posts inquiring if there are plans for a firmware update to fix this issue but red's silence is deafening
 
Just a guess on pricing: Given that the Canon has built-in log, I wonder if Canon will price it to be equal to the F3+S-Log option (about 16.5K).
 
J Davis said:
i've been following the HD-SDI out to prores very closely as it affects my business decisions. Info that I've found at this point in time is
- full sensor 5k is a full debayer in camera, but only 12 fps
- 4k and quad HD is not a full debayer in camera
- non 16x9 aspect ratios have two black borders on the feed
- 16x9 aspect ratio like quad HD has black borders on all four sides of the feed

I've made numerous posts inquiring if there are plans for a firmware update to fix this issue but red's silence is deafening
Click to expand...

I can confirm I saw the black bars from the Red Scarlet this week on the Sound Devices Pix 240 and the monitors thru HD-SDI,
and it is bad enough to ruin hopes of me using it for now with Prores at all...

The Red HD-SDI and HDMI output it is currently NOT professionally useable with those bars,
which was very disappointing...

I'd be pretty upset if I took delivery with "visible" but unuseable HDMI and HD-SDI output
on any camera body, be it 8 bit or 10 bit or 2 bit...
 
J Bellari said:
I can confirm I saw the black bars from the Red Scarlet this week on the Sound Devices Pix 240 and the monitors thru HD-SDI,
and it is bad enough to ruin hopes of me using it for now with Prores at all...

The Red HD-SDI and HDMI output it is currently NOT professionally useable with those bars,
which was very disappointing...

I'd be pretty upset if I took delivery with "visible" but unuseable HDMI and HD-SDI output
on any camera body, be it 8 bit or 10 bit or 2 bit...
Click to expand...

Deanan just posted that scaling options are coming soon

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ebayer-quality&p=887975&viewfull=1#post887975

Deanan said:
SDI out is full debayer. Scaling options will be added soon that enable more options.


Playback is not currently full.
Click to expand...
 
J Davis said:
Deanan just posted that scaling options are coming soon

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ebayer-quality&p=887975&viewfull=1#post887975
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback on the Scarlet.

Unhappy to see it's not there yet, not renting the kit next week specifically
because of the feature is not working yet...

I like what the C300 offers, just wish it was 10 bit and offered 4K and RAW options, if not on-board

I haven't a clue what the C300 will price at, but it will be a fraction of the Canon Cinema Zoom price
no matter how you spin it...
 
Was just watching this fantastically shot feature trailer http://vimeo.com/33025136

Shot with a GH2, amazingly enough.

Anyway, a random thought popped up while watching it, if panasonic swapped in the Canon sensor for the GH2, would I pay $11,000 for it? While that is a simplification of the situation, it is essentially what Canon did with the XF305. Swapped out the sensor, and upped the price (potentially) 10K. But would I pay $11,000.00 for a GH2 with the C300 image? No. Kind of put it all in perspective for me.
 
J Davis said:
i've been following the HD-SDI out to prores very closely as it affects my business decisions. Info that I've found at this point in time is
- full sensor 5k is a full debayer in camera, but only 12 fps
- 4k and quad HD is not a full debayer in camera
Click to expand...

For Scarlet, 5K at only 12 fps makes sense - that's all the camera can process, even to media.

From what Deanan said at REDUSER it sounds like 4K and QHD will be given a full debayer in camera prior to SDI output.
 
James0b57 said:
Was just watching this fantastically shot feature trailer http://vimeo.com/33025136

Shot with a GH2, amazingly enough.

Anyway, a random thought popped up while watching it, if panasonic swapped in the Canon sensor for the GH2, would I pay $11,000 for it? While that is a simplification of the situation, it is essentially what Canon did with the XF305. Swapped out the sensor, and upped the price (potentially) 10K. But would I pay $11,000.00 for a GH2 with the C300 image? No. Kind of put it all in perspective for me.
Click to expand...

?? I guess I understand you wrong. If the GH2 is what you like, then Panasonic already made the AF100 with a camcorderhousing. That´s your answer and I just saw on eon ebay for EUR 2.600.
The C300 is 5D image with 12stops DR, without the lineskipping and a very good broadcast codec in a XF housing.

BTW, in that trailer at 0:28 in-car is some nasty jello going on. it is a short cut, but you wouldn´t want to see a dialogue like that. Just saying....
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top