Canon EOS C300 NEW pricing!!!

[GaryinCalifornia]

In the end its all personal and really the camera is just a tool... in the end its really who's behind the camera more than the camera itself.... funny just thought of a scene from Singing on the Rain... when they play the test footage of sound recording and the one character says "that's revolting (or something along those lines)... it won't last"...

or its kinda like a no budget friend who hates old movies... which is funny considering his match those old B movies... limited coverage all masters with few singles and 2 shots thrown in...

in the end its called making movies... feel like I'm always kicking a dead horse... it starts from the script and goes from there...

 

[GaryinCalifornia]

Explain higher resale values... just like to hear what you think...

 

[mico]

This kind of talk is ridiculous. Anyone who has shot 4k oversampled down to 1080p will know how much better it is to start with a High Res Master.

Oversampling in the Recording.

It has strong benefits.

If you have to convince yourself otherwise, then by all means, spend $12-15k now on something that won't be upgradeable in the future, and then figure out what to do with a camera that is a dead standard.

I don't have to convince myself of anything. I work on projects where 1080p is all around me and the Alexa is KING. I have not worked on a film or tv show in the last year that used anything but the Alexa, except a detour to IMAX once, and a Panavision 35mm once when previously it was all Panavsion 35mm. Never once a 4K RED, although I did work on VFX for the new spiderman ( I know production shot on REds) and they only used canon 5d's. All those directors, cinematographers and producers don't care about "oversampling in recording". Did you read the Asc article? Is Deakins deluded?

And really in the future when theres a plethora of 4k+ cams around from every company and if Red is still alive and comes out with a new lighter more feature rich 5K scarlet, how many people are still going to hold on to their 4K Scarlets when it will also become a dead standard which according to Jannard it already is as a debayerd 4K resolving only 3.2K.

 

[LiamR]

Regarding the price talk of the RED and all the batteries,

Do red have a AC adapter that can be plugged straight into the camera and then into a power point? if they released one of those, for studio/on set shoots, you can run it into the power and not have to worry about batteries or the camera just suddenly turning off... surely if RED haven't done this a 3rd party manufacturer will?

 

[delaro]

Regarding the price talk of the RED and all the batteries,

Do red have a AC adapter that can be plugged straight into the camera and then into a power point? if they released one of those, for studio/on set shoots, you can run it into the power and not have to worry about batteries or the camera just suddenly turning off... surely if RED haven't done this a 3rd party manufacturer will?

yes it's in the package.

 

[GaryinCalifornia]

I'm sure we have... but I can't seem to remember ever running off ac when renting a high end camera ... shooting in people's houses or other locations always ran off a genie for lights.. might have plugged in the camera's battery chargers for recharging the batt's is all...

 

[J Davis]

power adapter for scarlet $150 here
http://www.red.com/store/power/product/ac-power-adaptor-150w-epic

My earlier post was purely from a financial perspective. For when you crunch the numbers, c300 vs scarlet. But there's one thing that I didn't mention that I really should have as I feel it something people consider subconsciously. Even though the scarlet works out more expensive - a scarlet owner operator may find opportunities opening up to them because they also have the ability to shoot 4k, to shoot RAW. Like opportunities to shoot 2nd unit on a red epic production or booking an ad gig that wants 4k or plates and shots for fx and you would have otherwise missed that opportunity. There's a lot of big budget films that are shooting on epics that could make use of scarlet shooters at the right locations. Even if its just renting their cam and including the owner in the camera crew.

 

[acoelho1]

Shane Hurlbut shoots commercials for television with dslr's, and even contours, and gets paid good money. Good enough is good enough. That's not to say he won't use a C300, but it is saying that a dslr can make big money in the professional realm if used right.

Explaining why the C300 is not worth it, can be valuable information to those who are on the fence about purchasing something they know little about, and there are people that do that sort of thing (and they're probably responsible for 50% of RED purchases). There is a lot of hype around scarlet and c300 right now. The truth is, that HDTV broadcast will not be able to resolve the c300 image noticeably better than a well shot 5Dmkii shot. At least, 99% of the audience will not notice. And if your end target is theatrical, netflix, or web, then a c300 has no added value over a dslr.

Danfung Dennis's Hell and Back Again was shot with a 5DII and made the Oscar's short list for Best Documentary. What it proves once again that it's the talent behind the camera that matters and in the end, the quality images that come out from HDSLR's are good enough. If you feel the need for slightly better quality that no average viewer will be able to distinguish or you need better functionality and don't want to deal with workarounds, then pay additional 10k. I rather put that money towards other parts of my production.

 

[delaro]

Danfung Dennis's Hell and Back Again was shot with a 5DII and made the Oscar's short list for Best Documentary. What it proves once again that it's the talent behind the camera that matters and in the end, the quality images that come out from HDSLR's are good enough. If you feel the need for slightly better quality that no average viewer will be able to distinguish or you need better functionality and don't want to deal with workarounds, then pay additional 10k. I rather put that money towards other parts of my production.

99,99% of the oscar movies or documentaries or any serious movie around are made with serious expensive cameras. and there is thousands more short movies and documentaries made with 5ds or other less expensive cameras (on vimeo, youtube, etc) than with those expensive cameras. so it seems the ratio of videos made with these less expensive cameras and showed in theaters or any broadcast medium is pretty low. but of course, i agree, the camera is not doing the work by itself. and I agree that the 5D is still a wonderful camera.

 

[Barry_Green]

To add to Barry's point I don;t think the c300 is expensive at all. Especially because I bet you could buy one, shoot for two or three months and finish a feature. Then sell the c300 for pretty close to what you bought it for !!

E X A C T L Y.

And even if you lose two or three thousand dollars on it... think of what it would cost to rent a camera for three months? A camera like this will rent for $500/day. For three months, buying it now and selling it after would be the cheapest rental you could ever possibly get...

 

[Barry_Green]

The truth is, that HDTV broadcast will not be able to resolve the c300 image noticeably better than a well shot 5Dmkii shot.

I disagree with this quite a bit.

And if your end target is theatrical, netflix, or web, then a c300 has no added value over a dslr.

I think there are few statements I could disagree more with. Look, I'm not a fan of the C300 -- I think it's an overpriced, reheated slab of old technology. But to say it has "no added value over a DSLR" is something that I just find incredibly ... well, let me say that I think it offers MASSIVE benefits over a DSLR. In so many ways.

Maybe not to you. Maybe not to the way you shoot. Maybe not at your budgets. But empirically, objectively, it offers tremendous benefits over a DSLR. Absolutely tremendous.

Worth the price difference? That's a personal decision.

 

[Barry_Green]

Danfung Dennis's Hell and Back Again was shot with a 5DII and made the Oscar's short list for Best Documentary. What it proves once again that it's the talent behind the camera that matters and in the end, the quality images that come out from HDSLR's are good enough.

Yes and no. James Longley's "Iraq In Fragments" was shot on a DVX100 and was nominated for an Oscar for Best Documentary. Does that prove that even today a DVX100 would be "good enough"?
(I would argue that yes it does, but I know a lot of people would scream in horror at the concept of shooting on "lowly" SD).

Suffice it to say that there are many reasons why people value certain attributes over others. Canon themselves clearly think that there are substantial advantages to the C300 over, say, the 5D Mark II -- so many advantages that they think people will be willing to pay $17,500 MORE for a C300 than a 5D Mark II. And I agree with them that there are substantial advantages, huge advantages -- just not to quite the same price degree as Canon seems to think.

 

[Piolet]

I think there are few statements I could disagree more with. Look, I'm not a fan of the C300 -- I think it's an overpriced, reheated slab of old technology. But to say it has "no added value over a DSLR" is something that I just find incredibly ... well, let me say that I think it offers MASSIVE benefits over a DSLR. In so many ways.

Yeah, let's go down the list!

Image Quality
- C300 is 4:4:4 off the chip and records to 4:2:2 codec verses 4:2:0 in DSLRs.
- C300 has 12 stops of DR with Canon log. DSLRs do not have that much DR.
- C300 has 1000 lines of resolution. DSLRs are not that sharp.
- C300 has faster readout, reducing roller shutter effects.
- C300 has video specifc sensor that does not line skip.
- C300 has less aliasing and moire than DSLRs.
- C300 is arguably more sensitive in low light.

Usability (assuming stock DSLR - no hacks)
- C300 has three internal glass ND filters, controlled by a push of a button (can even use an iPad to control the ND!). DSLRs have no ND filters.
- C300 has on board connections for Remote, HDMI, Sync Out, Genlock, Timecode and HDSDI. No other DSLR has all these connections.
- C300 has batteries that last 3 hours or more. DSLR batteries are smallar capacity and do not last as long.
- C300 has dual CF cards slots, enabling an instant backup copy if desired. Most DSLRs do not.
- C300 has on board EVF and LCD monitor that be positioned and rotated many, many ways.
- C300 has unlimited record time. Most DSLRs are limited by 4 GB file limit or 29 minutes.
- C300 has waveforms, RGB parade, vectorscopes, peaking, zebras, etc. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has modular design and includes a handle. DSLRs require additional rigging.
- C300 has a broadcast approved codec that is plug and play ready in most NLE.
- C300 has a cooling system to prevent overheating. Many DSLRs overheat.
- C300 has pro audio controls with dual XLR/phantom power. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has dedicated buttons for many filming operations. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has improved ergonomics with a rotating side handle.
- C300 has a PL mount version. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has pre-record. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has log gammma. DSLRs do not.

On the DSLR side:
- DSLRs are smaller and lighter
- DSLRs cost many times less than a C300.
- DSLRs are hybrid design so they can take high resolution stills as well.

Of course, only you can decide if it's worth it. But c'mon, look at that list!

 

[J Davis]

Until some of us can play around an take a look at the c300 sensor, none of use really know.

I think its going to be new, unlike anything we've seen before.

I also think its going to be on a par with the alexa

 

[cowpunk52]

How is the Sony F3, not comparable in feature list @$13K?

Nobody said it wasn't. There are pro's and con's to each on that comparison. Different productions will make that decision based on their needs, but it's a fair comparison.

And if the C300 ends up being $16000, how is it not going to be compared to a scarlet, when 25% more gets you more+ longevity, and higher resale value?

Nobody said it shouldn't be compared to that camera either. Once again, different productions will have different needs and make a decision based on that. The Scarlet isn't the right camera for every production. Same for the F3 and the C300. Each has it's own unique set of features that make it valuable, and worth the cost to the production that needs that set of features at the given price.

Selling existing tech (minus the sensor) for a higher price because it has little competition in the arena is milking the consumer.

Nobody's milking anybody. You have lots of choices when it comes to cameras. If you don't want a C300 at the price it comes out at, don't buy it. See how simple that was? Amazing!

 

[cowpunk52]

Yeah, let's go down the list!

Image Quality
- C300 is 4:4:4 off the chip and records to 4:2:2 codec verses 4:2:0 in DSLRs.
- C300 has 12 stops of DR with Canon log. DSLRs do not have that much DR.
- C300 has 1000 lines of resolution. DSLRs are not that sharp.
- C300 has faster readout, reducing roller shutter effects.
- C300 has video specifc sensor that does not line skip.
- C300 has less aliasing and moire than DSLRs.
- C300 is arguably more sensitive in low light.

Usability (assuming stock DSLR - no hacks)
- C300 has three internal glass ND filters, controlled by a push of a button (can even use an iPad to control the ND!). DSLRs have no ND filters.
- C300 has on board connections for Remote, HDMI, Sync Out, Genlock, Timecode and HDSDI. No other DSLR has all these connections.
- C300 has batteries that last 3 hours or more. DSLR batteries are smallar capacity and do not last as long.
- C300 has dual CF cards slots, enabling an instant backup copy if desired. Most DSLRs do not.
- C300 has on board EVF and LCD monitor that be positioned and rotated many, many ways.
- C300 has unlimited record time. Most DSLRs are limited by 4 GB file limit or 29 minutes.
- C300 has waveforms, RGB parade, vectorscopes, peaking, zebras, etc. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has modular design and includes a handle. DSLRs require additional rigging.
- C300 has a broadcast approved codec that is plug and play ready in most NLE.
- C300 has a cooling system to prevent overheating. Many DSLRs overheat.
- C300 has pro audio controls with dual XLR/phantom power. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has dedicated buttons for many filming operations. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has improved ergonomics with a rotating side handle.
- C300 has a PL mount version. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has pre-record. DSLRs do not.
- C300 has log gammma. DSLRs do not.

On the DSLR side:
- DSLRs are smaller and lighter
- DSLRs cost many times less than a C300.
- DSLRs are hybrid design so they can take high resolution stills as well.

Of course, only you can decide if it's worth it. But c'mon, look at that list!

Excellent list - and I would add that, because there is no mirror to contend with, third party manufacturers will be releasing PL Mount Adapters for the C300 EF Mount.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Look, I'm not a fan of the C300 -- I think it's an overpriced, reheated slab of old technology. But to say it has "no added value over a DSLR" is something that I just find incredibly ... well, let me say that I think it offers MASSIVE benefits over a DSLR. In so many ways.

Maybe not to you. Maybe not to the way you shoot. Maybe not at your budgets. But empirically, objectively, it offers tremendous benefits over a DSLR. Absolutely tremendous.

Worth the price difference? That's a personal decision.

Spot on. Agree with every word.

 

[Barry_Green]

Excellent list - and I would add that, because there is no mirror to contend with, third party manufacturers will be releasing PL Mount Adapters for the C300 EF Mount.

If there's one thing I find head-scratchingly unable to comprehend, it's why they are making two models with non-interchangeable lens mounts. And yeah, you just summed up the ideal solution for someone trying to figure out which one to get -- get the EF one, and get a PL adapter to go in the front of it... excellent suggestion!

 

[J Davis]

If there's one thing I find head-scratchingly unable to comprehend, it's why they are making two models with non-interchangeable lens mounts. And yeah, you just summed up the ideal solution for someone trying to figure out which one to get -- get the EF one, and get a PL adapter to go in the front of it... excellent suggestion!

but won't you have to cut a hole into the EF mount to change it to a PL mount?

 

[izoneguy]

E X A C T L Y.

And even if you lose two or three thousand dollars on it... think of what it would cost to rent a camera for three months? A camera like this will rent for $500/day. For three months, buying it now and selling it after would be the cheapest rental you could ever possibly get...

Heh, Heh, that is why I never went into the "rental" business....