Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Then buy something else. :violin:
Canon Confirms 24p And 25P For 5D via firmware update!!!
- Thread starter duranracing23
- Start date
Then buy something else. :violin:
I understand that no one bought a 5dii with hopes of 24p, it was in reference to those that already have a 5dii but want 24p, are they going to sell it for a 7D or other 24p dslr or wait it out for 8 months.
Hang on, that's what I'll do, I'll go back to my client today and tell him: "Sorry, guess I should have bought a different camera".
It was a lingerie fashion shoot.. Both, the lingerie and the jewelry had aliasing EVERYWHERE in it. Even the client who knows nothing about technique noticed it. This is the single most notable non-professional aspect of this camera. Canon needs to deal with it. Though I am doubtful that they can.
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That's the word from the owner of another popular dv forum who has some Canon connections.
The issue here is that we are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The 5dmkII is not really built for video. Canon apparently noticed how popular it became and is taking steps, but BELIEVE ME, they are selling a Still camera First ( and as far as a still camera goes its TOP NOTCH) and the video is a new feature. They needed to keep the price point where the 5D lives. under 3K. WHILE delivering 21.1 MP still images and a Digic 4 processor.
Sure they could build a big fat 35mm size chip Camera with industry quality Audio, Minimal overheating issues, Long lasting batteries, no aliasing, a nice high Bitrate, and various Lens mounts that services everyhting from Canon to Nikon to PL.... and records to CF cards....
that sounds awesome and it is, and i can buy that RIGHT now. for 17,500 from RED. The point is that for 2600$, youre getting a wishy washy Video camera and a SPECTACULAR DSLR.
Its like, having a Ferrari, but expecting its powerful engine ot be useful for towing a huge trailer. Yes its powerful, but and theoretically is should be able to do it cause of the power.... but thats Really not what its designed for..... Waht you need is a SUV for that.... and you can buy one... for 17500.....
Digigenic
Well-known member
Not quite as funny as the first one he did, but it still rings true.
I am glad I held on to mine, or I'd have probably lost my **** too.
With that said, less than a year will pass and something else will come out and make me reconsider selling again, but I'm really confident now with the addition of 24p that it won't be until the mark III comes out.
...or until that long awaited Scarlet arrives...
Digigenic
Well-known member
Well, I don't know if that's the appropriate analogy, but it's pretty close.
There will always be methods used to alter an object's intended purpose to serve one's unique needs.
In this process, the people start to redefine the object and its meaning.
I think after the 5DmkII gets the 24p update, it will be safe to conclude that we have successfully redefined the 5DmkII. And while we might not be able to tow that boat with our Ferrari, we've found a way to at least get the manufacturer to equip it with a hitch, a beefier suspension, and new transmission so that we can try.
squig
Veteran
put some lingerie over the lens, that should help with the aliasing.
The question then becomes, if we can get 25P on the 5Dmk2, for a film maker, is the 5D now, again, the better camera, or does the 7D's improvements to rolling shutter and slow-mo 720P mode make it the winner even though the 5D is now a lot better?
I'm going to get one of the two in the next week or so, but now the decision is more confusing than before!
I'm going to get one of the two in the next week or so, but now the decision is more confusing than before!
snicky
Active member
andrew00 exactly the same problem here. I was about to buy 7D this week, but today I read the news... Then I checked rolling shutter and low light performance comparisons once again and it looks like 5D is better choice (and even it's more expensive, but you will spare some money on the lenses in the end).
Oh, and there is an important question to all you 5D users: have you ever encounter any overheating problems?
Oh, and there is an important question to all you 5D users: have you ever encounter any overheating problems?
Totally, it's now almost a direct comparative decision.
Whereas previously you had clear distinctions to either product, now, especially given the price similarity in the UK, you have many similarities and differences that it's very hard to judge the merits of.
Essentially better rolling shutter + slow mo vs better low light and cleaner image. There's also the likelihood that the 5D has greater dynamic range, although I don't know if that's confirmed...
That's one of those things it's very difficult to value judge before you place down your money!
Whereas previously you had clear distinctions to either product, now, especially given the price similarity in the UK, you have many similarities and differences that it's very hard to judge the merits of.
Essentially better rolling shutter + slow mo vs better low light and cleaner image. There's also the likelihood that the 5D has greater dynamic range, although I don't know if that's confirmed...
That's one of those things it's very difficult to value judge before you place down your money!
Nope, not yet (I've been using the 5D for about six months now). But I have a really, really, reeeeeeeeally long shoot today. I'll report back if I have any problems!
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
So, you didn't test a new camera before you took it on a shoot?
How is that Canon's problem?
Ian-T
Veteran
That's definitely not the case..
commanderspike
Carbonite Member
It is indeed the case in 1080p mode. The rolling shutter in 1080 is the same on the 5D and 7D. The 7D only has an advantage in 720p / 60p mode with regards rolling shutter. This is because 1) Bloom's tests show this and 2) the sensor reads out from top to bottom faster in 720p mode because it has 720 lines instead of 1080 lines to read = less time consuming, and processes them 60 times a second as apposed to 24 or 30.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Every shot from any HDSLR is going to have aliasing everywhere in it. It is inherent to how these cameras work. It's just that usually, people don't notice, or the aliasing doesn't behave in such a way that it ruins shots. But sometimes, as you found, it does.
Do you have any examples (even cropped portions, etc) that you can post, so that people can see real-world examples of where this technology causes compromises in shoots?
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Being as I have been weighing up which camera to get in the last day of two, since the firmware announcement, I've come to believe the 5D is the better choice for me. Whilst I appreciate the 7D's slow mo mode and that the rolling shutter is meant to be better, which will help me in run and gun situations, and certainly the option to shoot 50fps if the situation needs it to help avoid jello issues is a plus, I think the 5D is my choice for two reasons.
Firstly, the low light/cleaner image will be of use as I often don't have time or ability to place lights, I have to use what is there. If I'm filming a band walking around at night, or walking through an art gallery playing before security chucks them out, I have to work with what I've got and the low light will help give me options. Likewise, having been reading Barry's 7D tests it seems the 5D has, if nothing else, a bit of an edge in sharpness and dynamic range, which might be of benefit to tart up video shot in muted lighting conditions.
Secondly, and this is something I've literally just thought of, and it's funny considering the debate over full frame vs cropped sensor. I'm coming from a Ex1/Letus combo work. One thing that always bugs me about them if you have to zoom into the ground glass by a fair distance - between 70-90ish if memory serves depending on how sharp the edges are or if I've, ahead, misaligned the Letus.
It means when I've filmed a band handheld and I've used the Ex1/Letus combo, firstly I'm carrying something as heavy as a shotgun which is difficult to wield, but mostly I can't avoid a framing that's super close in on the band.
Even if I use a 50mm lens, a standard normal lens, because I've had to zoom into the Letus ground glass I'm already super close in on the band, and that's from a reasonable distance in the first place.
This is frustrating as it limits my options. If I want to get super close in then, yes, I want the option of using a tele/zoom lens or moving closer to the band, but to have that decision taken from me, to force me to always be close, is limiting. Sometimes I want to be farther away and frame things from a distance in a more cinematic way, leaving space in the frame etc.
My recent thought therefore, is that the 5D will be great for this. The full frame removes the inherent 1.6 crop of the 7D (or as we were talking about saying, the 5D is 1.6x expanded on the 7D and it's cinema-sized sensor). In essence, the 5D will give me back a lot of my control over the framing and allow me to get wide shots from close quarters, if that's what I want.
For example, I've a band who want me to film then on the London Underground and on buses and that kind of thing - where I'd literally have to be very close to them to film due to people traffic. In fact I've found an example of a different situation where I filmed the singer of a band in a tiny laundrette, the video came out pretty well and the dude can sing, but I was very limited on what I could frame on due to being in such an enclosed environment - http://vimeo.com/4441258 - for the curious.
Now I know I can't take my EX1/Lex combo on this because it looks too much like a gun and I don't want to get shot, ahem!, but it still means with a cropped camera I'm dealing with that inherent 'zooming in' which gets me closer to the band than I might like to be.
With the 5D I can get that little bit wider, meaning if I'm stuck standing next to a guitarist with a singer a foot in front of me and commuters all around me, I know I'll be able to get a shot of more than just their nostrils!
I'm curious if anyone has anything to comment about this and if they'd disagree that the 5D is the choice for me. I haven't read anyone mention this sort of thing - being able to get wide in close quarters very much so it's something I felt I'd bring up!
Firstly, the low light/cleaner image will be of use as I often don't have time or ability to place lights, I have to use what is there. If I'm filming a band walking around at night, or walking through an art gallery playing before security chucks them out, I have to work with what I've got and the low light will help give me options. Likewise, having been reading Barry's 7D tests it seems the 5D has, if nothing else, a bit of an edge in sharpness and dynamic range, which might be of benefit to tart up video shot in muted lighting conditions.
Secondly, and this is something I've literally just thought of, and it's funny considering the debate over full frame vs cropped sensor. I'm coming from a Ex1/Letus combo work. One thing that always bugs me about them if you have to zoom into the ground glass by a fair distance - between 70-90ish if memory serves depending on how sharp the edges are or if I've, ahead, misaligned the Letus.
It means when I've filmed a band handheld and I've used the Ex1/Letus combo, firstly I'm carrying something as heavy as a shotgun which is difficult to wield, but mostly I can't avoid a framing that's super close in on the band.
Even if I use a 50mm lens, a standard normal lens, because I've had to zoom into the Letus ground glass I'm already super close in on the band, and that's from a reasonable distance in the first place.
This is frustrating as it limits my options. If I want to get super close in then, yes, I want the option of using a tele/zoom lens or moving closer to the band, but to have that decision taken from me, to force me to always be close, is limiting. Sometimes I want to be farther away and frame things from a distance in a more cinematic way, leaving space in the frame etc.
My recent thought therefore, is that the 5D will be great for this. The full frame removes the inherent 1.6 crop of the 7D (or as we were talking about saying, the 5D is 1.6x expanded on the 7D and it's cinema-sized sensor). In essence, the 5D will give me back a lot of my control over the framing and allow me to get wide shots from close quarters, if that's what I want.
For example, I've a band who want me to film then on the London Underground and on buses and that kind of thing - where I'd literally have to be very close to them to film due to people traffic. In fact I've found an example of a different situation where I filmed the singer of a band in a tiny laundrette, the video came out pretty well and the dude can sing, but I was very limited on what I could frame on due to being in such an enclosed environment - http://vimeo.com/4441258 - for the curious.
Now I know I can't take my EX1/Lex combo on this because it looks too much like a gun and I don't want to get shot, ahem!, but it still means with a cropped camera I'm dealing with that inherent 'zooming in' which gets me closer to the band than I might like to be.
With the 5D I can get that little bit wider, meaning if I'm stuck standing next to a guitarist with a singer a foot in front of me and commuters all around me, I know I'll be able to get a shot of more than just their nostrils!
I'm curious if anyone has anything to comment about this and if they'd disagree that the 5D is the choice for me. I haven't read anyone mention this sort of thing - being able to get wide in close quarters very much so it's something I felt I'd bring up!
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slimchrisp
Well-known member
That's one of my favorite things about the dslr form factor. Covert. Stu did a class at fxphd with the 5D last term where he did a bunch of shooting in Japan. Not a single person bothered him shooting on the streets. They even set up right next to a police station at one point.
As far as over cranking goes with the 5D, I've got my fingers crossed that it makes it into the upcoming firmware update.
Either way, I'm more than happy to wait a few months and keep the 5D over having a 7D today.
Stop trying to make it my fault.
This is not a new camera for me. What is new every time is the fashion.
Am I always supposed to have the lingerie/clothes and a model to test them with several days before the shoot to see if my camera cuts it?
Fashion doesn't work that way. New clothes every shoot. Often you get it for one day and one day only. No way to tell or test it in advance. And you can't see it on the LCD or even a laptop sometimes (if one actually had the time to review everything) so you don't know until you get home.
What this essentially amounts to is that I must always have an entirely different camera just in case and then basically guess which is better. Which is not why I bought the 5D M2. I bought it to do stills and video on fashion shoots. It is well within the profile of the market they are pitching to. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a camera that doesn't have this degree of aliasing. It is perfectly reasonable to ask Canon to deal with it on THEIR camera.
I see no reason why it may take another 9 months to come up with a firmware solution for 24/25p unless for marketing reasons. Frankly, I am not impressed with Canon's responsiveness to their 5D customers to date despite what others are saying here. This issue has been raised with them for many months. If they are going to take this kind of additional time, it would genuinely be considerate of them to actually deal with a few other of these issues, notably the aliasing while they are at it. IF they can.
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