C500: Canon C700 Announced.

And Jeff Cronenworth (who I would say has done better work than Titanic and Ant-man, having done Fight Club, Gone Girl, The Social Network, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo) was the DP for Man and Beast, which had some nice shots, but was a slow narrative, with excessive and boring narration, and as mentioned, worst of all for a 4K camera demo, was only ever uploaded online at 720p.

Trick Shot had Gale Tattersall as its DP, who was the DP on House and some decent budgeted movies that no one cares about. Convoluted story, looked okayish to me, though many people didn't like the look. As mentioned, originally uploaded at 720p, to promote their 4K camera.

Which means what? That a big name DP doesn't necessarily mean a good camera launch video.

At least with Philip Bloom and Vincent Laforet they also uploaded it on their personal Vimeo pages, at the actual resolution that they shot it in. I don't know, because they cared, and the camera company doesn't care? It makes no sense. Why would a camera company not upload their camera promo videos at a reasonable resolution (720p is not reasonable)? Bloom and Laforet are also much more experienced than any of the above DPs at doing equipment reviews.

Will be interesting to see how good this one turns out. But I think most of us know by now that launch videos are often an unreliable way of telling a camera's quality.


And now for a Mobius refresher...

 
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Yes, Canon really don't help themselves out here, but watching launch videos on Vimeo or YouTube is now utterly pointless.

The cameras capabilities are far outstripping the ability of these delivery systems to display their output.

So every launch video the camera will look a little better than a GH4, because these streaming video services level the quality.

What's the point of comparing say an (HD) C300 MKII @ 225mpbs through an 8mbps stream from YouTube.

= "My GH4 looks as good as your $12K camera !!!!1!!! lolz"

I remember someone saying Trick Shot was really coloured to work well on a Canon reference monitor (BT 2020?) so no amount of pixels will show you the true colour rendition anywhere but at a Canon booth at a trade show, unless you have $20K to put down for the display and can get the original files (not streamed).
 
Matt Turner said:
What's the point of comparing say an (HD) C300 MKII @ 225mpbs through an 8mbps stream from YouTube.
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Cause an 8mbps stream on Youtube or Vimeo can look awesome if done right. Awesome enough that the quality of camera can make quite a difference.

Most of the benefits of higher mbps is for color grading/post anyway. A final delivery can have a much lower file size than the source files and still have great quality.
 
I couldn't get 4K on YouTube when I had 8 Mbps max. Now that I have around 80, 4K usually comes in well. I figure it's around 30 Mbps with the VP9 codec. Vimeo usually doesn't play 4K because they're still using H264 at around 50 Mbps. Their "2K" (which is actually 2.5K) mostly plays fine.

That said, it's like in the old audio world. You can have the most sophisticated recording equipment but many an album will be mastered to sound good on a run-of-the-mill car stereo. Which means that the studio monitors used for that mix are horrid garbage by intent. TV is, at least, aiming a lot higher since the current and future generation 4K HDR sets are all going to deliver a superb image from a reasonable quality source.

As to the camera demos, guys like Laforet and Hurlbut can certainly frame their shots even if the story lines in these shorts are completely absurd.
 
DLD said:
That said, it's like in the old audio world. You can have the most sophisticated recording equipment but many an album will be mastered to sound good on a run-of-the-mill car stereo. Which means that the studio monitors used for that mix are horrid garbage by intent.
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Can't live without my NS10's. Mix on those and the mix more or less sounds good on any kind of speaker set up.
 
NorBro said:
RED will have some announcements in October...I'm assuming one of the new 8K models will have HFRs in 4K ProRes. Maybe even higher. For $70K+, it better.
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Seems like RED's new models still maxes out at 29.97fps in 4K ProRes.
 
Yea, it's unfortunate. I would rather have the 4K/60p/120p ProRes, but most of the people using those cameras just love the REDCODE RAW.

Apparently, 4K/60p ProRes is very difficult to implement, so most manufactures use their own propriety RAW and/or formats to achieve HFRs.

Blackmagic is an exception.

(Maybe it's one reason why the C700 is so expensive.)
 
Jarred dropped hints for a while so everyone knew what was coming...we just didn't have all of the details regarding specs, upgrade options, payment plans, etc.

If I was interested in dropping $30K on a camera, there is nothing in the world right now that would compare to the Epic-W.

The total package would be closer to $40K...but 8K@30P? lol, insane.
 
And, as much as Sony has been doing on the lower end, they've been conspicuously absent from the high end. Earlier in the year, I posited that they'll have some announcements by October. But they've been quiet so far and, on spec$, Red is holding a commanding lead at the moment.
 
NorBro said:
Jarred dropped hints for a while so everyone knew what was coming...we just didn't have all of the details regarding specs, upgrade options, payment plans, etc.

If I was interested in dropping $30K on a camera, there is nothing in the world right now that would compare to the Epic-W.

The total package would be closer to $40K...but 8K@30P? lol, insane.
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"Me thinks it will be more..."
 
Definitely could be...the cheapest accessory package they recommend is $18K on top of the brain if you would like to shoot comfortably and in style, but if you know your gear, you can take some of those accessories out and get by.

Just by removing a RED baseplate, handle, EVF and matte box, you save $8K...so just have to see what is really necessary.

Personally, I would only invest in the cheapest power module they have, the touch monitor and one mini-mag (& red station). This can all be had for several thousand to get going...
 
NorBro said:
If I was interested in dropping $30K on a camera, there is nothing in the world right now that would compare to the Epic-W.

The total package would be closer to $40K...but 8K@30P? lol, insane.
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I disagree that nothing would compare with the Epic-W at or below $30K, but that is beside the point. It certainly wouldn't cost $40K. There are a lot of more affordable ways to outfit your RED camera.

I had no idea you were interested in RED. I would have transferred my Scarlet-W order to you if you had said something earlier. I had a very good early 2016 timestamp and was in line for a $10K discount on the Epic-W (in addition to another 10% educator discount, which probably wouldn't transfer). They are a fantastic company to deal with and have the best customer service you can imagine. Ultimately, I decided against RED this time because of several reasons, but I would definitely recommend them as a company and I'm sure I'll be back someday in the future.
 
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I post about every camera in the world! haha

Not sure why you wouldn't think I like RED...I like them all.

Also, if you read my last post, I mentioned only several thousand to get going after the brain...

P.S. Thank you for your comment; I would have definitely strongly considered it if I knew!
 
NorBro said:
I post about every camera in the world! haha

Not sure why you wouldn't think I like RED...I like them all.

Also, if you read my last post, I mentioned only several thousand to get going after the brain...

P.S. Thank you for your comment; I would have definitely strongly considered it if I knew!
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No worries, I just felt like my Scarlet-W order went to waste, since someone could have had an Epic-W for $20K. I should have probably told some people I was willing to transfer it. For $20K, it would have been a bargain and held its value incredibly well.

The next few years should be fantastic for cameras. The "C500 II" 8K is definitely on the horizon. That will be a Canon masterpiece if they figure out a recorder option that doesn't require 4 Odysseys!
 
Kinok said:
No worries, I just felt like my Scarlet-W order went to waste, since someone could have had an Epic-W for $20K. I should have probably told some people I was willing to transfer it. For $20K, it would have been a bargain and held its value incredibly well.

The next few years should be fantastic for cameras. The "C500 II" 8K is definitely on the horizon. That will be a Canon masterpiece if they figure out a recorder option that doesn't require 4 Odysseys!
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On your C500 MK II thing....I think you are missing what has been posted about the C700. I was told and Jon Fauer ASC wrote in his review, Canon is looking at this camera to be around for quite a while with open architecture for future upgrades:
http://www.fdtimes.com/2016/09/11/canon-c700-full-frame-18x24-s35-and-other-formats/

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
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