steve phillipps
Veteran
But that's what you can do with the FS7 too - just add lens and card and go shoot - but at half the price.
Steve
Steve
Canon C300 MKII Announced
- Thread starter rob norton
- Start date
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
The difference is I don't have producers asking for the FS-7.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
I wasn't comparing it to any specific camera, just that it seems like a good release by Canon for those who already enjoy the way the C series image looks and the way the cameras perform with ease. Who ever likes the Sony, great! No one's stopping anyone from getting what they want.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Don't know if anybody knows which I asked a page back, but are the Atomos CFast cards compatible with the C300 Mark II?
The bit rates are listed as, "Intra 410/225/220/110Mbps, LongGOP 50Mbps, Long GOP 35 or 24Mbps (for proxy recording on SD cards)".
Can anyone point me to info on how those data rates correspond to resolution (4k vs 1080), color space (4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0), and bits (12 bit, 10 bit, 8 bit)? Can 4k be recorded at a data rate lower than 410 Mbps? On the FS7 4K at 30p can be recorded at 220 Mbps with 10 bit 4:2:2 as well as 100 Mbps with 8 bit 4:2:0 which is nice.
At 410 Mbps on a 128 GB CFast card, you'd be getting around 42 minutes of recording if my math is close. 1 hr 24 minutes on a 256 GB card which are currently only from Lexar at about $1k each. I'd figure four cards would be sufficient, so an extra $4k. With Atomos' 128 GB cards, you could get eight for $2k. Maybe 2 256 GB Lexars and 2 Atomos 128 GB cards for $2440 would be a good bet if the Atomos' work. I don't see the point in paying $800 for a 128 GB SandDisk when the Lexars are just $200 more for 256 GB.
The bit rates are listed as, "Intra 410/225/220/110Mbps, LongGOP 50Mbps, Long GOP 35 or 24Mbps (for proxy recording on SD cards)".
Can anyone point me to info on how those data rates correspond to resolution (4k vs 1080), color space (4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0), and bits (12 bit, 10 bit, 8 bit)? Can 4k be recorded at a data rate lower than 410 Mbps? On the FS7 4K at 30p can be recorded at 220 Mbps with 10 bit 4:2:2 as well as 100 Mbps with 8 bit 4:2:0 which is nice.
At 410 Mbps on a 128 GB CFast card, you'd be getting around 42 minutes of recording if my math is close. 1 hr 24 minutes on a 256 GB card which are currently only from Lexar at about $1k each. I'd figure four cards would be sufficient, so an extra $4k. With Atomos' 128 GB cards, you could get eight for $2k. Maybe 2 256 GB Lexars and 2 Atomos 128 GB cards for $2440 would be a good bet if the Atomos' work. I don't see the point in paying $800 for a 128 GB SandDisk when the Lexars are just $200 more for 256 GB.
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steve phillipps
Veteran
All I'm saying is that it's not some revolutionary thing that's unique. There seems to be some sort of hysteria going on and I just don't get it - people talking about "awesome" specs and useability, as far as I can see it's pretty ordinary - ie good, just like lots of the other good cameras out there at the moment - and I'm sure it'll make lovely pictures, just like the others do, but at a significantly higher price than some.
Not saying anyone's right or wrong with any of their comments, just that I don't understand the excitement. BUT, I've never used the original C300, which might have something to do with why I'm bewildered!
Peace.
Steve
Not saying anyone's right or wrong with any of their comments, just that I don't understand the excitement. BUT, I've never used the original C300, which might have something to do with why I'm bewildered!
Peace.
Steve
nyvz
Veteran
Well I've pretty much never had a producer ask for any camera that hadn't already been out for over a year...
Btw any other news on this camera having dual gain architecture like alexa/BMCC? It'd be the first camera on the market with dual gain pathways that also has adjustable gain... And 4k.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Around here most producers are comfortable with Amira/Alexa & C300. Beyond that & there's the conversation that nobody enjoys. REDs are often tricky because many producers have bad memories, &/or don't want the extra expense of processing Raw, while the F5/55 & FS7 are mostly unknown.
If the C300 II shot ProRes the producers would wet themselves.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I've meet a few new potential clients and when they heard I have a FS7 they said - "Great, I'm very interested to do the next job with that camera!"
Not that I think it really matters what camera I use. I show them my work and if it'll fit I might get the job. Which camera is sort of irrelevant in most cases as I've shoot with 10+ different cameras these last years.
Not that I think it really matters what camera I use. I show them my work and if it'll fit I might get the job. Which camera is sort of irrelevant in most cases as I've shoot with 10+ different cameras these last years.
Spartacus
Veteran
Still, there are cameras out there, producers don't seem to ask about at all, no matter how long they have been out.
I'm sure FS7 owner/operators will make a good living off their purchase.
Personally I would probably even get one over a C100MII if I'd be shopping right now.
But I'm also sure the C300II will take up where the MI left off and will take a giant chunk of alexa w/ProRes budgeted productions.
This.
Any producer worth his or her salt, knows it's the image maker that counts.
If they trust you to do the job based on your previous work, it is likely they will ask YOU which camera you think is appropriate for it.
At least the smart ones. After that of course, it's a question of budget.
steve phillipps
Veteran
Even thought the market and range of equipment now available is totally different? Maybe you're right, just seems quite an assumption based on the current playing field.
Steve
Spartacus
Veteran
As others have mentioned: Besides changes "on the current playing field" the C300 is THE constant player on that field.
As is the Alexa in the league above, although RED offers more for less specs wise and although the F55 offered 4K.
Seriously, internally recorded 12bit 444 @ 2k and with 15 stops from a proven and trusted camera - I don't think it's much of an "assumption" that the MII will do well...
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
If it can match the Alexa look the camera will do well in TV production... just wish it ha 60p in 4k...
I dunno man, what camera has all those boxes checked in an ergonomic package? FS7 comes closest I think, but other than hi-speed at 4k I don't see any weaknesses on paper with the C300ii. Hell, you can even add that on with the Odyssey.
If it was a lot less expensive, we'd all buy one...
Surf it Mike
Well-known member
Just luvin the way 15 stops of DR ....has now become fact based on marketing press releases.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
*jack sparrow voice*
I'm good with it.
I'm good with it.
steve phillipps
Veteran
Well that's the key point isn't it - with that pricing they obviously see it in a different class to FS7 etc....but based on what? On the shoulders of the success of the original? Maybe - and maybe they've got it right - again, I just don't get it - but if I'm in the minority I'm happy with that.
Steve
I wonder if people who feel that way have actually used an Alexa? Just because some specs are similar it doesn't mean it competes with it. Next to the Alexa or Varicam the C300 is a toy. Not even close to the same market or kind of clients. Totally different tools!
I've been saying this from page 1. Everybody behaving like the press release is the gospel. For several reasons I will be very surprised if it has real 15 stops.
Andrew Reid at EOSHD says the dual readout isan "in-camera trickery".
But, I think, as roughly what harddrive posted on the Varicam thread, dual readout is about the only way a modern camera can deliver an image similar to a photo Raw. In an audio world, it's sort of like comparing a full-range speaker with a 2-way, a separate tweeter for high frequencies and midrange/woofer for the lower frequencies. A single driver can only cover so much.
On specs, this is better than Alexa for ~ 1/5th the price and I think it will find more uses than any camera currently out. There's indeed nothing unique about it, except the value in represents in the current technological landscape. And then this becomes a target for other camera manufacturers to overcome.
Oh, and, unlike XC10, C300 MK II doesn't seem to be crippled in any way, shape or form. Its competitors, even including the FS7 and GH4 among then, have a few strikes going against them.
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