Canon A1 $3,499

delaro said:
can i ask you why you want to sell your hvx and buy another cam? is it because of the noise? low light results?
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A1's image is a lot cleaner, to me. The noise isn't as distracting as the HVX noise, to me.

I also got to see A1 footage in a direct in-store comparison for myself. A1 is just cleaner to me.
 
ok thanks. i really really like the hvx image. but i can't figure out how visible is the noise, because all footages i found were compressed. is it always as noticeable as in this footage?: http://207.234.168.110/Movies/Summer-720p internet.mov
(on the roof, ....). some people say it s the same as dvx, but most of my dvx footages don't show any noise. is it possible to have no noise at all in bright light outside for example?

do you think that the A1 is the new DVX for indies? can it be as filmlike concerning the motion and colors when it's outputed to dvds?
 
I see the noise in that clip but I see alot of noise in the garage when it's in frame. this is exactly what I noticed with the HVX when I used it. I loved the HVX but the noise put me off. I haven't seen this yet with the A1, I'm not saying it's there, I just haven't seen it yet.

I do believe the A1 "CAN" be the new DVX with a huge following because it's such a good camera with an awesome image and it competes in cost with more expensive HD cameras like the HVX. Just look at the DVX's following when it came out at this, basically same, entry price.
 
Coffee-- LOL. You don't remember releasing that snippet? I remember checking it out. Tsk tsk, mister. And thank you for also mirroring my comment on the noise. The HVX is a noisey beast, IMO. I don't know what other people are/aren't seeing, but I do know a good amount of HVX owners/users that will tell you something similar if not exact. Coffee, make sure that you try another adapter, dude. I think that NCJE is doing okay with his m2 as well as others.

Delaro-- I don't know if I'd say the A1 is the new DVX for indies... because I'm no authority on such a claim. It could very well be, from what I'm seeing. 3500.00, tape workflow with tapeless options down the line, a hi-res hi-def CLEAN image, 24f which looks JUST like 24p, and Canon's version of HDV which is the best of the bunch. I do know that you CAN get rich contrast and colors out of it, especially if you tweak in camera and then push a bit more in post. Let people tell you as much as they want about HDV or 4:2:0. The footage speaks for itself. I've taken .m2t's from people who havent' even learned how to use the camera yet and CC'd them to hell, and they hold up so much better than my DVCproHD footage STRAIGHT FROM P2. Also, the lowlight performance is a really good thing. I stated before in the other thread that not everyone can afford to blast a scene with light. Therefor, when you have a lowlight camera that has options like NR1 and NR2 to clean up noise, and you can use a little light, you'll get a BETTER IMAGE. And in the end, regardless of VFRs, 720p, p2 workflow, yadda and yadda, the IMAGE is what counts, right? The image and story, yeah yeah. But the IMAGE is what's in question here. Just look at Coffee's comment about the A1 image on his 50": It's a stellar product. And I've seen 24f in different applications.

Take Elton's Faces in the Crowd quicktime: that's film-like to me all the way. Or Starwaypictures The 24th/25th Letter, that's also VERY film-like. I projected Starway's footage onto a huge wall and it was outrageous.

If all you wanted to add to it was tapeless workflow? Get a Firestore FS-C/FS-4 HD... you'll have all the 24f - HDV footage you want that can be offloaded via-firewre immediately.
 
yes, i've seen some very nice H1 footages!
3 more questions before rushing to the shop
so, is there a big quality difference between the A1 lens and the H1 one? i understood that the electronic is the same ..... but what about the optic?
is there a big difference between SDI 4:2:2 and HDV 4:2:0 footages when projected without any CC work added? i've seen siblingsSDI10sec.mov footage (from Elton i think ....) and i was wondering if the HDV tape footage would look almost the same directly out of the cam....
and i'm not sure about one thing: when i change the color, saturation, pedestal etc settings in the cam, it's working on a 4:2:2 image inside the A1 and then going to tape to finally output to 4:2:0. so it's better to change the colors, contrast, etc in the cam and adjust in post than doing everything in post. am i right?
 
Kholi, lol, now i remember. but damn, that was such a long time ago. haha

delaro, you asked about the quality difference between the A1 lens and the H1. I was curious about this as well so I PM'd macgregor about his impressions on them both. He uses the H1 and he said that if he had the option to get the A1 instead of the H1 he would go that route, plus buy a firestore. that alone spoke volumes for me in my decision to go with the A1.
 
coffee said:
Kholi, lol, now i remember. but damn, that was such a long time ago. haha

delaro, you asked about the quality difference between the A1 lens and the H1. I was curious about this as well so I PM'd macgregor about his impressions on them both. He uses the H1 and he said that if he had the option to get the A1 instead of the H1 he would go that route, plus buy a firestore. that alone spoke volumes for me in my decision to go with the A1.
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I'm telling ya. A1+Firestore. And yeah, the lens is supposed to be a really good lens. How it stacks up to the H1, I dunno. But apparently it's good enough.

I'm also not sure if it's a 4:2:2 space before it hits tape. That's something for Elton to answer. As far as the in-camera way of life? I think that you'd do well/better to get the look in-camera and tweak in post. That's probably the best way to get a clean image with the HVX200. With the A1? I dunno. It seems really clean and CCing it holds up really well. 4:2:0 or not. And it doesn't bring the noise out as bad as CCing DVCproHD.
 
i believe the canon XH a1 is 4:2:2 before it hits tape. When it is compressed onto tape it becomes 4:2:0. If you export straight from the camcorder to computer (only on the G1) the color space is 4:2:2 which would mean the camcorder is using 4:2:2 before it hits tape.
 
db20 said:
i believe the canon XH a1 is 4:2:2 before it hits tape. When it is compressed onto tape it becomes 4:2:0. If you export straight from the camcorder to computer (only on the G1) the color space is 4:2:2 which would mean the camcorder is using 4:2:2 before it hits tape.
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Great. So you get 4:2:2 from the RGB/Component out, then. I couldn't remember if this was true or not. Good deal for those going in on a tethered shoot.

And as Elton always says you can capture to whatever codec you choose. Greenscreen work should be a breeze
 
To try to answer on a few different topics...

SDI: Tape is very close in quality, and can be CC'd to match it easily. The color depth from 4:2:2 has a subtle richness that only the most obsessed could see, but that's why the more expensive cameras have the feature. Personally, I don't think it's enough to worry about--the HDV is that good.

There's always the raw analog output mated to a Kona/Blackmagic/Wafian etc. if you need that extra little bit of chroma info.

Lens: Somewhat to my chagrin, the A1 lens is better. It seems to have less CA at the wide end, and of course the wide end is soooooo much more useable. It's basically all you need, and if you need wider the new .8 adapter is pretty dang good too.

Color space: It is 4:2:2 before the image hits the HDV endoder and recorded to tape.
 
I know on the Canon XH g1 you can export to computer using the HD-SDI which retains the 4:2:2 color space. On the canon XH A1, in camera it uses 4:2:2 but looses this when put onto tape. I don't know if the XH A1 has any output were you could retain 4:2:2 colorspacing like the XH G1. The component out on the XH A1 i believe suffers from the same limitations as printing to HDV tape (I could be wrong and hope so).
 
db20 said:
I know on the Canon XH g1 you can export to computer using the HD-SDI which retains the 4:2:2 color space. On the canon XH A1, in camera it uses 4:2:2 but looses this when put onto tape. I don't know if the XH A1 has any output were you could retain 4:2:2 colorspacing like the XH G1. The component out on the XH A1 i believe suffers from the same limitations as printing to HDV tape (I could be wrong and hope so).
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It's going to be the same as the V1u's HDMI out (Just not digital signal). It doesn't compress to HDV until it hits the tape.


On the Lens: a .8x wide-angle adapter on a 20x lens is a sure-fire way to throw the background out of focus. You could do a lot of tight-spot shooting with this kind-of setup and even get great looking Bokeh/DOF.

Mmmm tasty.
 
I just now ordered an XH-A1 from this "1 Stop" place.

Price was $3,599.

4 year warranty was $350.

Gave me the hard sell on batteries as usual, but didn't press too hard.

I'm supposed to get this next day delivery, so we'll see...

I'm happy. Good lookin' out!
 
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