Canon 7D vs HPX500
- Thread starter Ian-T
- Start date
Ian-T
Veteran
LOL... Why? What's the point? >>> It was a test that had both cameras measured in the same environment under the same conditions that supplies an original "compressed" download for one to compare on their own PC. In doing this they looked like they could be used as A/B footage (with a little bit of tweaking of course)..
Even in the Rodney Charters test it showed that the Red One was much more detailed in resolution than the 7D when they A/B the footage. In this case that was NOT obvious....at all. In my eyes.....these two cams could cut much better than a 7D/Red One. I viewed Charters stuff both on the Web and on the original QT download and came to the very same conclusion. It's not to say one couldn't use a 7D and a Red in the same production....I just think if it were the same scene...then you would probably tell (no different from Crank 2 when they used the A1's and HF10s....the HF10s seemed a bit softer in the same scene....2 Me).
Ryan Farnes
Well-known member
I see your point. But what about well utilized DOF? That is a good thing. That is what this camera can let you do.
It seems my comment on the DOF has hit a nerve with some people about how shallow these DSLRs can go. But my original response to Kholi was his "It's an anomaly of components" comment. I didn't get the 7D and then discover shallow DOF. It is one of the things that brought me to the 7D. You can go shallower for less money with the 7D. By no means do I (or most others) celebrate extreme and out of place DOF. But to dismiss it as an anomaly of components...? Perhaps he owns a HPX-500. :happy:
This is DVXuser right? Based on the lower budget solutions...
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Kholi owns more then one 7D if I am correct, and has been shooting with these things since pretty much day one it seems. He knows what's up.
I understand what you are saying, and I bought a 7d partly because I wouldn't have to deal with a 35mm adapter anymore. All I am saying is that just because we now have tools that mean we can do something does not necessarily mean that we must.
For someone coming into the world of video/cinema with a 7D there is the possibility they won't have the chance to learn some of the disciplines I outlined above because they don't think they need them or don't realize their value.. A good shooter is a good shooter no matter what capture device they are behind. A good 7D shooter is... well, just that.
I understand what you are saying, and I bought a 7d partly because I wouldn't have to deal with a 35mm adapter anymore. All I am saying is that just because we now have tools that mean we can do something does not necessarily mean that we must.
For someone coming into the world of video/cinema with a 7D there is the possibility they won't have the chance to learn some of the disciplines I outlined above because they don't think they need them or don't realize their value.. A good shooter is a good shooter no matter what capture device they are behind. A good 7D shooter is... well, just that.
Joseph and William: ... Yes.
Canon 7D vs HPX-500: Slight green cast can be corrected. They're both probably pretty equalized on the web, a large screen will reveal which is the more robust image.
DOF (oi... the acronym is beginning to sour...):
Orson Welles
NOVEMBER
28 Days Later
Slumdog Millionaire
Each one of these names are significant.
See William's Post and my signature.
Shoot it up.
Canon 7D vs HPX-500: Slight green cast can be corrected. They're both probably pretty equalized on the web, a large screen will reveal which is the more robust image.
DOF (oi... the acronym is beginning to sour...):
Orson Welles
NOVEMBER
28 Days Later
Slumdog Millionaire
Each one of these names are significant.
See William's Post and my signature.
Shoot it up.
Ryan Farnes
Well-known member
Right, I see your point. Agreed.
visugeek
Well-known member
Zooming on the image in the browser, its easy to see how the HPX-500 deals with the focus chart better. The center of the focus chart Moires with the 7D.
That being said, the the 7D reproduces colors better based on how these were CCed, and has the ability to do shallower DOF.
What doesn't show in this test is that the HPX-500 has a motorized zoom, high quality built in mic, and all of the bells an whistles of a $10,000 HD video camera, because it is a $10,000 HD video camera.
Edit:My mistake, the camera is $11,500 without the lens or p2 memory cards.
But for $2000, I'm pretty happy with my 7D. I don't zoom that much, and I shoot double system sound anyway. I prefer the higher quality and a dedicated sound guy.
Shallow DOF is not a crutch, it's an artistic choice, just like Deep DOF was for Greg Toland on Citizen Kane and the f64 club still photo group back in the early part of the 20th century.
Thanks for posting this comparison, I think it's a great test!
That being said, the the 7D reproduces colors better based on how these were CCed, and has the ability to do shallower DOF.
What doesn't show in this test is that the HPX-500 has a motorized zoom, high quality built in mic, and all of the bells an whistles of a $10,000 HD video camera, because it is a $10,000 HD video camera.
Edit:My mistake, the camera is $11,500 without the lens or p2 memory cards.
But for $2000, I'm pretty happy with my 7D. I don't zoom that much, and I shoot double system sound anyway. I prefer the higher quality and a dedicated sound guy.
Shallow DOF is not a crutch, it's an artistic choice, just like Deep DOF was for Greg Toland on Citizen Kane and the f64 club still photo group back in the early part of the 20th century.
Thanks for posting this comparison, I think it's a great test!
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Ryan Farnes
Well-known member
I kept trying not to follow up post on this, but I just don't understand what you meant by an anomaly of components. Given that you own 4 7D's, what is it that made you buy them instead of say, 4 HMC40s?
ROCKMORE
Veteran
An anomaly is any occurrence or object that is strange, unusual, or unique. It can also mean a discrepancy or deviation from an established rule or trend.
A crutch for some, a valuable tool for others.
When comparing the 7D sensor size and lens configuration to a 35mm motion picture camera it not an anomaly, it is normal.
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I know what I typed.
Has this whole DOF thing rubbed me the wrong way? Yes.
Did I tell anyone to put down your 7D and wait for something better? No.
If you can't do anything great with any camera, you probably won't do anything great with anything else. Truth. Choice is a different matter.
A lot of the new people here think that the originals are stomping all over your hopes and dreams when we make statements or comment on these cameras and it's not what you want to hear about your new toy.
It isn't malicious. I mean, if we all keep telling people that it's about DOF and nothing else, that would be malicious. Because, then we would be lying to you. No, Barry's doing factual, actual scientific tests and bringing them to you so you know what not to do in a shooting situation, so that your final product will look evne BETTER.
Other members spout how important it is to forget about DOF and concentrate on composition and its components, so that it will get what? Better?
... We're pretty much brewing competition for ourselves later on. What kind of sense does that make?
I could totally never speak a word about Micro-Jitters and how you need to weight your DLSR down if you want to get a tradtional cinematic look to your handheld footage, hold all of that info and just watch the Jack Rabbit micro-jitters plague everyone's footage... I don't...
I would rather create competition for myself and see people figure it out so that I can watch something tolerable than horde what I learn first hand getting cut on the bleeding edge.
Nobody's trying to discourage anyone. Just trying to help get some heads out of the clouds.
Has this whole DOF thing rubbed me the wrong way? Yes.
Did I tell anyone to put down your 7D and wait for something better? No.
If you can't do anything great with any camera, you probably won't do anything great with anything else. Truth. Choice is a different matter.
A lot of the new people here think that the originals are stomping all over your hopes and dreams when we make statements or comment on these cameras and it's not what you want to hear about your new toy.
It isn't malicious. I mean, if we all keep telling people that it's about DOF and nothing else, that would be malicious. Because, then we would be lying to you. No, Barry's doing factual, actual scientific tests and bringing them to you so you know what not to do in a shooting situation, so that your final product will look evne BETTER.
Other members spout how important it is to forget about DOF and concentrate on composition and its components, so that it will get what? Better?
... We're pretty much brewing competition for ourselves later on. What kind of sense does that make?
I could totally never speak a word about Micro-Jitters and how you need to weight your DLSR down if you want to get a tradtional cinematic look to your handheld footage, hold all of that info and just watch the Jack Rabbit micro-jitters plague everyone's footage... I don't...
I would rather create competition for myself and see people figure it out so that I can watch something tolerable than horde what I learn first hand getting cut on the bleeding edge.
Nobody's trying to discourage anyone. Just trying to help get some heads out of the clouds.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
Glad to know what was driving your statement. Thanks
Personally I have no illusions of commercial or feature productions with any of these new DSLRs. I don't even have one yet. The 7D is what it is, a dirt cheap camera, only out a few months that can produce images way out of it's pay grade. Very impressive so far.
BTW Your lesson to add weigh and mass to the camera for hand held work should be tested by everyone. Simple, cheap and effective.
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What I meant is that it's a bi-product, happenstance, one of many instances that occur when many facets and articles of technology combine to create a system; almost a happy, or cursed, accident.
Compression schemes can find superiority amongst themselves, DOF superior to one or another? That makes no sense.
Why I own so many 7Ds and not HMC40's doesn't really have anything to do with DOF. More-so ROI and knowing what fits into the field I work in i.e. my literal bread and butter. That doesn't make the 7D a great camera, as it's still a very poor alternative to a real camera.
I can have thousands invested in this and still say it, doesn't change the fact that they get used in and out of "professional" environments.
Hope that helps.
Peter Reynolds
Well-known member
Returning to the original post
Thanks Ian for posting the video. Really eye-popping. It's the best real-world test I've seen
and it tempts be even more to pull the trigger on the 7D.
On comments by Rockmore
I have always appreciated the honest assessment of cameras and other gear on this site. It helped me
make my decision on the DVX100b oh so many years ago. I don't want to people to say what they
think I want to hear. I want facts, backed up by evidence, from people with experience. The "originals",
like Barry, have done just that and the site is better for it.
That being said, there are those members who do seem to be waiting in the wings to criticize a
camera like the 7D for no other reason than to score points. I've seen it on numerous threads. It
starts out as "Great GH-1 footage!!" and about 4 posts down invariably has someone saying "It's not
as flexible as a professional video camera" or "DOF isn't everything". True? Yes. But why dump on
everyone's enthusiasm? Just start a new thread.
Thanks Ian for posting the video. Really eye-popping. It's the best real-world test I've seen
and it tempts be even more to pull the trigger on the 7D.
On comments by Rockmore
I have always appreciated the honest assessment of cameras and other gear on this site. It helped me
make my decision on the DVX100b oh so many years ago. I don't want to people to say what they
think I want to hear. I want facts, backed up by evidence, from people with experience. The "originals",
like Barry, have done just that and the site is better for it.
That being said, there are those members who do seem to be waiting in the wings to criticize a
camera like the 7D for no other reason than to score points. I've seen it on numerous threads. It
starts out as "Great GH-1 footage!!" and about 4 posts down invariably has someone saying "It's not
as flexible as a professional video camera" or "DOF isn't everything". True? Yes. But why dump on
everyone's enthusiasm? Just start a new thread.
Ryan Farnes
Well-known member
Thanks for the repsonses. I think I got what I was looking for. I used the word "superior" instead of "shallower." The culprit of this exchange I believe.
Appreciate the advice.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
This quote was not posted by Rockmore, it was written by Kholi. Thanks
Barry_Green
Moderator
re: the green cast on the HPX500... that's an issue that's been fixed for, what, over a year now? There was a hardware problem initially, so they should send their camera in to Panasonic to get it fixed.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
I agree. In film I've spent my life trying to keep more things in focus. It's never been much trouble creating less DOF. Just move closer to you subject and focus on it. Everything else will be as soft as you want. This is nothing new.