Canon 7D major differences with HPX170+DOF adapter
- Thread starter Mj882
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From my shooting so far, the 5d, and I presume this also applies to the 7d, doesn't quite compare to the Ex1/Letus combo all things being equal. The quality, whilst good on the 5d, is superior on the ex1/lex - it's prob 90% there.
Of course, this comes with all the many advantages of the 5d in cost, size, weight and low light ability so overall the package of stronger imo.
In perfect conditions I'd choose the ex1/lex, but in imperfect conditions I'm finding myself increasingly reaching for my 5d.
For example, I recently picked up an Edirol R-44 and I can put that and my 5d in the main compartment of my very small Domke F-3X bag and still have space in the compartment to plug 4 mics into the Edirol AND have room in the main compartment for two lenses. Plus, there's all the pockets outside the main compartment still to fill.
With my Ex1 I always have to cart a bulky Kata bag around and even then spent ages getting it ready to shoot when I'm there. With the Domke/5d combo, I can shoot literally in a second. Add the fact I can hook 4 wireless mics to the edirol, which can sit nicely in my bag and my profile is miniscule. I look like a normal guy with a bag as various actors can move all around my, nicely wirelessly mic'd. Profile = zero.
Of course, this comes with all the many advantages of the 5d in cost, size, weight and low light ability so overall the package of stronger imo.
In perfect conditions I'd choose the ex1/lex, but in imperfect conditions I'm finding myself increasingly reaching for my 5d.
For example, I recently picked up an Edirol R-44 and I can put that and my 5d in the main compartment of my very small Domke F-3X bag and still have space in the compartment to plug 4 mics into the Edirol AND have room in the main compartment for two lenses. Plus, there's all the pockets outside the main compartment still to fill.
With my Ex1 I always have to cart a bulky Kata bag around and even then spent ages getting it ready to shoot when I'm there. With the Domke/5d combo, I can shoot literally in a second. Add the fact I can hook 4 wireless mics to the edirol, which can sit nicely in my bag and my profile is miniscule. I look like a normal guy with a bag as various actors can move all around my, nicely wirelessly mic'd. Profile = zero.
Avenger007
Well-known member
Sorry to those left guessing. I need to remember to check dvxuser more often.
The first two shots are 5D (man with goatee) and the rest are Red. Nobody in my PMs or in the responses here got it.
My point is that internet quality is sort of the great equalizer when it comes to these different cameras. Other than the fact that the first two shots were 16x9 and the others were 2:1 aspect (dead giveaway) it's hard to really tell. In fact, looking at them again they really do look soft. I think I went a little heavy on the jpg compression. Now, I can almost always tell adapter footage, which is consistently plagued with soft corners, GG grain, odd gyrations on plants/skies that reveal the spinning or vibration, or even just the blooming highlights caused by the acrylic glass used.
Now, when it comes to production, distribution, post production, or even client approval you may not always win with the DSLR. I shot that western with a video village 250ft away while feeding a sound team multiple channels, a monitor for dolly/jib teams, an AC monitor, and a nice viewfinder for myself. I would never be able to pull that off with a DSLR. Not to mention that realtime playback and color grading opportunities with R3D files is astounding these days.
It all comes with a price. Stop arguing over nit picky quality differences when you know which medium your work is ultimately going to end up on. To those asking about the adapter vs DSLR, think of it this way:
-Is timecode important?
-Is professional audio integration important?
-Is P2 or SxS form factor important?
-Is 4:2:2 or better color space important?
-What size screen will your clients/audience see this on?
Barry is right, I watch more stuff on Hulu and Netflix than I do on TV, DVD, or Bluray. Heck I just bought a Bluray player for xmas specifically for the Netflix instant play support.
I will say this - the day that bluray quality streaming format is officially and affordably available through online or internet based devices will be the death of hard disc mediums. That will also tilt the playing field toward higher end cameras deserving of a proper display format. Right now, typical cable or even satellite streams are compressed more so than comparable bluray versions despite what the providers want you to think. I think we all want to have that opportunity to view the highest quality version of our films or major motion pictures, so it will be interesting to see how the "convenience" of online streaming balances out (or ultimately eliminates) the need for a full featured cinema camera.
Here is a pair of higher quality stills for comparison. Higher resolution sharpness vs perceived sharpenss (5D on the right).
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These are hard to tell apart which is what I'd expect in a close-up. The RED wins detailed wide shots much more easily.
Did you by any chance read the thread on Reduser that discusses the RED/Canon intercut reel? People posted comparison screenshots from the video and compared a completely, ridiculously out-of-focus shot from the 5D to a beautifully in-focus shot from the RED.
Of course the RED's got more detail (and no aliasing) even on a level playing field, but that discussion was crazy. People even downconverted the 5D shot to 360p and upconverted it back to 1080p to find no difference, concluding that the 5D delivers less than SD resolution.
Jester2138
Well-known member
You should here the arguments between Starbucks fans and local coffee shop fan's down here in N'Awlins. I remember once I was on a set and the gaffer, who was from Los Angeles, saw our wonderful CC's coffee and said (jokingly I hope), "Man, where's my Starbucks!?" All the guys from New Orleans sorta had a collective heart attack.
That day is probably a decade or more away. First of all, a typical Blu-Ray movie takes up, what, between 10-20 gigaBYTES of information (not bits, BYTES...way larger). With ISPs looking long and hard towards implementing bandwidth caps, it seems highly unlikely that you'll get anything more than the quality you see with DirecTV HD compression over the Internet.
I'm not saying that streaming good looking HD is impossible at this juncture, mind you. Blu-Ray is not simply about a 1080 stream, it's also about high quality audio (from Dolby and DTS HD codecs to uncompressed LPCM) and special features. For Joe Blow who is looking for a nice looking movie to play through his stereo speakers, a lot of streaming will be fine (save for those nasty bandwidth caps, of course) However, for those looking to duplicate the theater experience in their living room, which is what Blu-Ray is mostly geared towards, we still have a long way to go. Whether Blu-Ray achieves the wide adoption of DVD can be debatable, but not because the quality is available over streaming. It's not. And if you think it will be sooner than later, I'm afraid you're just kidding yourselves.
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Mj882
Well-known member
Okay so, reigniting this thread...I just played around with the 7D at work, in the evening. Tested it in low light conditions, and it proved a lot better than my HPX+Letus. The fact that the HPX/Letus needs so much additional lighting puts me off quite a bit, let alone how heavy it is; asopposed to the ergonomic 7D.
I'm still not sure whether I should sell my HPX170+Letus gear and opt for the 7D. For a filmmaker who will be shooting films for festivals, I'm still not sure if the 7D would be enough for it.
I'm still not sure whether I should sell my HPX170+Letus gear and opt for the 7D. For a filmmaker who will be shooting films for festivals, I'm still not sure if the 7D would be enough for it.
Red users, or more specifically Red owners, are psychotic. I love what the camera is doing for filmmaking, but the community and "their leader's" attitude towards everything and everyone else make me never want to touch one of thier cameras, let alone let people know I shot on one. Red's attitude is like that of some asshole who would drive a Ferrari through a lower-class neighboorhood just laugh at poor people.
MatthewC
Well-known member
I knew the 7Ds were good, but didnt realize how cheap they were. I'm throwing the idea around of selling my HPX+170 and Letus to get the 7D, but I really like having the audio there. I do corporate videos as well as shorts, etc. and it seems like the 7D would be more of an inconvenience for run and gun shooting, catching things in the moment, etc. What did you decide to do in the end? I just bought my HPX170 in November, and just recently got my Letus. Haven't used it besides a camera test, but I have an upcoming shoot in the forest for 3 days, and I know the 7D would perform a bit better. I will have lights and it is fairly bright. This was our first camera test in similiar conditions and I think it looks great. Thoughts? Comments?
We will be using lights and a generator to bring levels up as needed. The worrying part is keeping the SLR lense above f4, but I'm confident we'll make it happen.
JimNastics
Active member
Matthew, I'd be really interested in seing the results of your shoot with the HPX+Letus. How did it go?
We just finished screening our two short films in a digital theater in 2k. Other shot with the 5d and the other with a JVC HDV 720p + 35mm adapter. The 5d was so much better looking that it wasn't even funny.
Try looking at the image in a real theater. Preferably with video done by professionals. It will look good.
MatthewC
Well-known member
Here's a quick director's edit sample video, to see how the scene flowed. Yes, there's some glitches with mouths etc and I never touched the audio, it was simply to see if I got what I needed and the scene worked. Someone else is actually going to be editing it. 
I will post some images as well.
In terms of conditions, we lost a lot of light around 3PM on Saturday, so we didn't really get any scenic shots or anything. Sunday was pissing, absolutely pissing, and our location driver never did show up with tents. So we got prepped and put up rain cover for 3 hours. We ended up a bit behind, but still got some nice shots. I've got another day of scenics and one meat-and-potato shot I missed, but I think we did good for being in such weather.
http://vimeo.com/14969387
I will post some images as well.
In terms of conditions, we lost a lot of light around 3PM on Saturday, so we didn't really get any scenic shots or anything. Sunday was pissing, absolutely pissing, and our location driver never did show up with tents. So we got prepped and put up rain cover for 3 hours. We ended up a bit behind, but still got some nice shots. I've got another day of scenics and one meat-and-potato shot I missed, but I think we did good for being in such weather.
http://vimeo.com/14969387