Canon 7D killed my scarlet dreams!

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line skipping doesnt matter when its skipping every other line on a sensor that has 3.5k lines....
 
Well, to be fair, it *can* matter on items such as extremely fine detail in horizontal or vertical lines, etc. You can get some aliasing and moire that wouldn't happen on a every-pixel full-coverage sensor.

The question is whether it *does* matter.
 
Well, yeah, that's where the issue can occur if it's going to occur. Look at the complaints about aliasing on the 5D. That's what causes it.

Of course, that's what it is *conjectured* to be causing it. I don't know of any official source that has ever confirmed that the Canon cameras are, indeed, skipping lines.
 
Barry_Green said:
(and in case anyone fails to recognize this) -- I consider myself absolutely 100% the bullseye target market for the Scarlet. Without a doubt, unquestionably. Been looking forward to since the day I sold my Red One. Definitely will be the earliest of early adopters.
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Hey Barry I'm curious about your reasons for selling the Red One, I'm not trying to read anything into it, just curious, thnx
 
I had it early, early, early. I was #364. At that point there was simply *no* workflow for Windows users, nor was there going to be for months and months and months. When we'd ask about workflow, we were told "Buy a Scratch system." That's $50,000. I mean, I'd already spent $30k on the Red, and the only other answer anyone would give on workflow was "get a Mac". Great. Thanks. Another $4,000 or $5,000 for a Mac Pro with FCS, a huge learning curve, starting over with everything... and remember, back at this time the was Red's OS was build 13 when I got it, so many, many things just weren't working or hadn't been implemented yet. 3K mode, for example, didn't exist. Lots of things weren't there, it was still very beta (and Red was very clear and upfront about that, by the way, so I'm not complaining about that aspect, just pointing out that what I had wasn't what Red One users today have.) The audio was awful and hissy and required special cables and nonstandard TA3F connectors, in fact I think when I first got it the audio wasn't even enabled! I think that got enabled in a later build. My monitor wouldn't work properly with the Red, a fact I didn't know about until after I'd gotten it. I didn't buy the Red LCD because I had a nice BT-LH80, a $3,000 HD-SDI monitor; but you couldn't use it properly because the Red put out a 1280x848 image and all of the menu options and focus assist and all sorts of things were put outside of the image area. So my monitor could show a downconverted version of the video image, but none of the menus or user-assist tools! So, now, to get the thing working, I'm looking at having to buy a $4,000 EVF -- except they didn't exist at that point other than as extreme backorders. Or the RED LCD, which just bugged me because here I already had a $3,000 8" HD-SDI monitor with pixel-to-pixel display, it grated on me to have to buy another $2,000 worth of LCD and even then it'd be a little 5.6"... and then I stressed about the lens situation, we kept hearing about a Nikon mount coming out, some fancy Berger mount, but that never happened during the time I owned it ... eventually I went with a Cooke 20-100 zoom that I found at Wooden Nickel for $3,000. It showed up and it worked well, but it was bigger than the Bacon-Ets woman's patootie. I mean now the whole package was obscenely huge and heavy, and while I had a decent tripod (nothing exceptional, just a decent Cartoni that's fine for ENG-style cameras), it was completely inadequate to handling the Red+Cooke bulk. I put out bids to various places to get a proper Red-capable tripod. Another $7,000 to $10,000. Sigh. So I was already into the system for $30k, looking at having to pay another $15k or so to get it functional, and even then it wouldn't work with Windows (at that time) and lots of features weren't enabled and nobody could tell me when it'd be able to work the way I wanted it to.

Actually the final straw for when I sold it? After Cineform produced a Red-compatible version of their utility, and Red shut it down, they gave as a reason that Apple and Scratch were the ones who had "answered the call", and so they had an exclusive commitment to basically only honor Apple and Scratch as the only allowable workflows, for a certain period of time. Which meant that even if Avid or Sony or Adobe wanted to provide support, *they couldn't*. So no help was coming. And I didn't want to go Mac again; I'd bought one for the P2 system early on and a month was long enough with that, so...

... between the additional expense, and the editing hassles, and the lens situation, and the functionality, and the more expense, and the lack of rentals coming in...

Bah.

So I figured I'd sell it for now, and buy again once it was done, stable, with a working workflow. I put out a feeler for what I could get for it, and found out that I could sell the package for more than I paid for it, getting enough profit to put both my kids through college for the entire year.

So -- no brainer, ka-ching, sold.

Now the system is more stable, functional, and predictable. Now Vegas and CS4 have workflow options. The Red Primes are shipping, and the Nikon mount is a reality. Things are much, much better in Red-land. I've looked at getting back in, but frankly I don't need what the One does, so the Scarlet seems like it would be plenty enough. So when it comes out, I'll get one.
 
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Barry_Green said:
I had it early, early, early. I was #364. At that point there was simply *no* workflow for Windows users, nor was there going to be for months and months and months. When we'd ask about workflow, we were told "Buy a Scratch system." That's $50,000. I mean, I'd already spent $30k on the Red, and the only other answer anyone would give on workflow was "get a Mac". Great. Thanks. Another $4,000 or $5,000 for a Mac Pro with FCS, a huge learning curve, starting over with everything... and remember, back at this time the was Red's OS was build 13 when I got it, so many, many things just weren't working or hadn't been implemented yet. 3K mode, for example, didn't exist. Lots of things weren't there, it was still very beta (and Red was very clear and upfront about that, by the way, so I'm not complaining about that aspect, just pointing out that what I had wasn't what Red One users today have.) The audio was awful and hissy and required special cables and nonstandard TA3F connectors, in fact I think when I first got it the audio wasn't even enabled! I think that got enabled in a later build. My monitor wouldn't work properly with the Red, a fact I didn't know about until after I'd gotten it. I didn't buy the Red LCD because I had a nice BT-LH80, a $3,000 HD-SDI monitor; but you couldn't use it properly because the Red put out a 1280x848 image and all of the menu options and focus assist and all sorts of things were put outside of the image area. So my monitor could show a downconverted version of the video image, but none of the menus or user-assist tools! So, now, to get the thing working, I'm looking at having to buy a $4,000 EVF -- except they didn't exist at that point other than as extreme backorders. Or the RED LCD, which just bugged me because here I already had a $3,000 8" HD-SDI monitor with pixel-to-pixel display, it grated on me to have to buy another $2,000 worth of LCD and even then it'd be a little 5.6"... and then I stressed about the lens situation, we kept hearing about a Nikon mount coming out, some fancy Berger mount, but that never happened during the time I owned it ... eventually I went with a Cooke 20-100 zoom that I found at Wooden Nickel for $3,000. It showed up and it worked well, but it was bigger than the Bacon-Ets woman's patootie. I mean now the whole package was obscenely huge and heavy, and while I had a decent tripod (nothing exceptional, just a decent Cartoni that's fine for ENG-style cameras), it was completely inadequate to handling the Red+Cooke bulk. I put out bids to various places to get a proper Red-capable tripod. Another $7,000 to $10,000. Sigh. So I was already into the system for $30k, looking at having to pay another $15k or so to get it functional, and even then it wouldn't work with Windows (at that time) and lots of features weren't enabled and nobody could tell me when it'd be able to work the way I wanted it to.
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you're improving dude.. why didn't you use paragraphs?? :huh:

it'd be more clear to read :zombie_smiley:
 
If you guys feel the need to buy a Red I'd wait to see what's going to happen to all these (500+) Red for Epic trade ins.
 
Johnny Cola said:
You think they are gonna refurb and resell em or just scavange them for parts?
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Dunno dude, we all know Jim has the money to burn them if he wants but he could also do something more productive like donate them to every college / film school. Build a base with students like Avid does.

It would be a shame to see them burned but I think we are past a point where Red needs a price reduction and that will probably happen after Epic, they could even be discontinued after Epic /Scarlet. Who knows, I just hope he does something good with them.

I'd think a refurb one would have to sell for $7k to move them in large volume.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
think you mean 6,000+ :)
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I didn't know all 6,000+ people who owned a Red will be trading them in on Epics. Yea, then they will have to sell them even cheaper to move them fast in large volume before technology narrows the performance gap even more or upgrade them to 6k and call them a Red Elite or something.
 
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Johnny Cola said:
Wow I'd pay 7k for a R1 brain in a heartbeat LOL
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The cheapest I have seen a body sell for was $11,300 6 months ago but yea, they would have to be cheap enough to want to make people buy serious computers, cc monitors, raids, aja to handle the footage / post. Most of the maket who is willing to do that already has.
 
Barry_Green said:
I had it early, early, early. I was #364. At that point there was simply *no* workflow for Windows users, nor was there going to be for months and months and months. When we'd ask about workflow, we were told "Buy a Scratch system." That's $50,000. I mean, I'd already spent $30k on the Red, and the only other answer anyone would give on workflow was "get a Mac". Great. Thanks. Another $4,000 or $5,000 for a Mac Pro with FCS, a huge learning curve, starting over with everything... and remember, back at this time the was Red's OS was build 13 when I got it, so many, many things just weren't working or hadn't been implemented yet. 3K mode, for example, didn't exist. Lots of things weren't there, it was still very beta (and Red was very clear and upfront about that, by the way, so I'm not complaining about that aspect, just pointing out that what I had wasn't what Red One users today have.) The audio was awful and hissy and required special cables and nonstandard TA3F connectors, in fact I think when I first got it the audio wasn't even enabled! I think that got enabled in a later build. My monitor wouldn't work properly with the Red, a fact I didn't know about until after I'd gotten it. I didn't buy the Red LCD because I had a nice BT-LH80, a $3,000 HD-SDI monitor; but you couldn't use it properly because the Red put out a 1280x848 image and all of the menu options and focus assist and all sorts of things were put outside of the image area. So my monitor could show a downconverted version of the video image, but none of the menus or user-assist tools! So, now, to get the thing working, I'm looking at having to buy a $4,000 EVF -- except they didn't exist at that point other than as extreme backorders. Or the RED LCD, which just bugged me because here I already had a $3,000 8" HD-SDI monitor with pixel-to-pixel display, it grated on me to have to buy another $2,000 worth of LCD and even then it'd be a little 5.6"... and then I stressed about the lens situation, we kept hearing about a Nikon mount coming out, some fancy Berger mount, but that never happened during the time I owned it ... eventually I went with a Cooke 20-100 zoom that I found at Wooden Nickel for $3,000. It showed up and it worked well, but it was bigger than the Bacon-Ets woman's patootie. I mean now the whole package was obscenely huge and heavy, and while I had a decent tripod (nothing exceptional, just a decent Cartoni that's fine for ENG-style cameras), it was completely inadequate to handling the Red+Cooke bulk. I put out bids to various places to get a proper Red-capable tripod. Another $7,000 to $10,000. Sigh. So I was already into the system for $30k, looking at having to pay another $15k or so to get it functional, and even then it wouldn't work with Windows (at that time) and lots of features weren't enabled and nobody could tell me when it'd be able to work the way I wanted it to.

Actually the final straw for when I sold it? After Cineform produced a Red-compatible version of their utility, and Red shut it down, they gave as a reason that Apple and Scratch were the ones who had "answered the call", and so they had an exclusive commitment to basically only honor Apple and Scratch as the only allowable workflows, for a certain period of time. Which meant that even if Avid or Sony or Adobe wanted to provide support, *they couldn't*. So no help was coming. And I didn't want to go Mac again; I'd bought one for the P2 system early on and a month was long enough with that, so...

... between the additional expense, and the editing hassles, and the lens situation, and the functionality, and the more expense, and the lack of rentals coming in...

Bah.

So I figured I'd sell it for now, and buy again once it was done, stable, with a working workflow. I put out a feeler for what I could get for it, and found out that I could sell the package for more than I paid for it, getting enough profit to put both my kids through college for the entire year.

So -- no brainer, ka-ching, sold.

Now the system is more stable, functional, and predictable. Now Vegas and CS4 have workflow options. The Red Primes are shipping, and the Nikon mount is a reality. Things are much, much better in Red-land. I've looked at getting back in, but frankly I don't need what the One does, so the Scarlet seems like it would be plenty enough. So when it comes out, I'll get one.
Click to expand...

Wow, reading your experience, just took my breath away. I know they're better now, but wow.
 
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