canon 7D colours not good
- Thread starter matt9b
- Start date
Dingos8mybaby
Well-known member
The 2nd-half of this blog post (by Shane Hurlbut) explains how to adjust for colour biases (ie. WB Shift). Maybe this'll help the OP?
http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/03/30/color-correction-put-your-best-foot-forward/
http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/03/30/color-correction-put-your-best-foot-forward/
Ian-T
Veteran
Dude...that link is much appreciated. I had no idea that the color could shift like that between cameras. Thanks.
TraumaBunny
Carbonite Member
Hey Matt, judging by your complaints I can't help but feel that you're really an agent provocateur on a covert mission to give the 7D a bad name! The Canon 7D was created by God himself! This is the "fuhrer" of all DSLR's. Your words are blasphemy! Can't you see? This camera is flawless! How DARE you speak badly of it! Back spawn of Satan!
*grabs you* you work for Panasonic dont you! DONT YOU! *Batman voice* Answer me man or so help me...
lol just kidding bro! Dont put an angry or confrontational tone of voice to my words, I'm not attacking you.
Now, before some psychotic nerd/wannabe detective with no life plays the "gotcha game" with me too like we're 12 years old all over again I'd just like to say I had a similar problem with my 7D too or more specifically one of the bundle-deal lenses which came with it.
It was the 50mm 1/8 (guess what, it came from China)
The other lenses were fine. When I later exchanged my 7D for a T2i (another bundle deal package) it also came with a 50mm 1/8 lens but it worked just fine.
Perhaps it's your lenses? You see, the 7D is a "can do no wrong" camera, when I'm not filming with it I'm using it to time-travel or fly. Hell, I've taken this thing into a local hospital and cured sick children with it.
Have you unlocked that secret feature yet? I have...
So if you're getting bad results with it it's obviously your fault! Phillip Bloom uses a 7D and whatever he does is LAW, you've just broken that law buddy! Guards, seize this man! Seize him immediately!
Take your 7D to a service center bro, maybe it's faulty. Dont bother using the T2i for photography, the 7D is way better.
*grabs you* you work for Panasonic dont you! DONT YOU! *Batman voice* Answer me man or so help me...
lol just kidding bro! Dont put an angry or confrontational tone of voice to my words, I'm not attacking you.
Now, before some psychotic nerd/wannabe detective with no life plays the "gotcha game" with me too like we're 12 years old all over again I'd just like to say I had a similar problem with my 7D too or more specifically one of the bundle-deal lenses which came with it.
It was the 50mm 1/8 (guess what, it came from China)
The other lenses were fine. When I later exchanged my 7D for a T2i (another bundle deal package) it also came with a 50mm 1/8 lens but it worked just fine.
Perhaps it's your lenses? You see, the 7D is a "can do no wrong" camera, when I'm not filming with it I'm using it to time-travel or fly. Hell, I've taken this thing into a local hospital and cured sick children with it.
Have you unlocked that secret feature yet? I have...
So if you're getting bad results with it it's obviously your fault! Phillip Bloom uses a 7D and whatever he does is LAW, you've just broken that law buddy! Guards, seize this man! Seize him immediately!
Take your 7D to a service center bro, maybe it's faulty. Dont bother using the T2i for photography, the 7D is way better.
Few important things. You need to adjust your Picture Style settings to get what you want. Think of it as film stock. The 7d out of the box shoots pretty flat on most of the picture styles. Go the canon website for examples. Just google picture styles canon 7d.
As for the example you've posted I don't think that's a great example of a color range in the 7d. You have a light skinned man in a white shirt with a white background with daylight.
Also you should share your workflow. Do you do pre or post processing? I'm asking about your workflow in the past with the other cameras you were talking about. Do you expect to just pick up the 7d make minor alterations and have popping beautiful images? You need to work with the inner workings of the camera to achieve that. Much like I said... like a film stock.. or in this case a digital film stock via the Picture Profiles.
As for the example you've posted I don't think that's a great example of a color range in the 7d. You have a light skinned man in a white shirt with a white background with daylight.
Also you should share your workflow. Do you do pre or post processing? I'm asking about your workflow in the past with the other cameras you were talking about. Do you expect to just pick up the 7d make minor alterations and have popping beautiful images? You need to work with the inner workings of the camera to achieve that. Much like I said... like a film stock.. or in this case a digital film stock via the Picture Profiles.
To be dead honest, I've been saying this for a while now. ALL of this: 7D out of the box color is garbage. Particularly, Skin Tones look incredibly crap in video and still mode and it requires a lot of finessing. I've been working with these contraptions forever and it took me equally long to figure out the idiosyncrasies.
It's most prevalent in Video Footage, and that's because most people shooting with DSLRs are just complacent with DOF and don't seem to care much about what skin really looks like.
matt isn't crazy, maybe needs to just learn the camera, but certainly Canon colors are garbage. Especially in comparison to Nikon out of the box or GH-1 out of the box. 7D, T2i and 5D all need VERY careful tuning in-camera to get the best results, or you'll need a great post technician to clean it up.
People think that viewers don't care about proper rendition of colors, healthy looking skin. Sure, you may not hear it VOICED but it's absolutely important.
It's most prevalent in Video Footage, and that's because most people shooting with DSLRs are just complacent with DOF and don't seem to care much about what skin really looks like.
matt isn't crazy, maybe needs to just learn the camera, but certainly Canon colors are garbage. Especially in comparison to Nikon out of the box or GH-1 out of the box. 7D, T2i and 5D all need VERY careful tuning in-camera to get the best results, or you'll need a great post technician to clean it up.
People think that viewers don't care about proper rendition of colors, healthy looking skin. Sure, you may not hear it VOICED but it's absolutely important.
Nanometers
Member
I also agree with the other posters that 7D renders unacceptably pasty skin tones. This is from 20yrs+ of experience in color correction.
ChuckS
Veteran
I agree with you and although its taken more than a little back and forth on this thread it is nice to see civil recommendations getting it back on point. However this begs the question how do you tweak or finesse the profiles to make the 7D better. I don't know how best to accomplish this all I know is that I spend a fair amount of time post color correcting to get it to look better.
Lammy
Well-known member
7d: http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8518/standard7dbig.jpg
click link for larger
350d: http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8774/350dbig.jpg
click link for larger
Same settings, same lighting, and same lens on both cams. The 350d shows more how his skin looks in real life, and is more flattering.
You can't use the same settings as it's a different sensor and different processing involved.
The 7D is cleaner, sharper, and more contrasty by default- which gives a technically superior image but it may not give the most desirable look.
To match that 350D in camera, I'd suggest:
* Use a picture style like portrait or faithful
* Lower the Contrast
* Lower the Sharpness
* Increase the Saturation
* Shift the color tone to +1 or +2 or -1 or -2
* Use a higher ISO value
And yeah out of all the cameras the Canon's colours just don't look as good, but with abit of work it can be done!
Snapper123
Well-known member
I honestly see a big difference. In the 7D photo, his lips look chapped, the nose looks too lumpy because of the high contrast, the forhead looks to prominent because it's too bright, and you can see skin blemishes. In the latter photo, it looks perfect for a portrait. While I believe camera's should do all things (the 7D image would be useful for medical shots where say, someone was trying to point out skin blemishes?) it's obvious that the other camera generates photos that look very filmlike, even, and well...downright portrait quality. It just looks very soft, low contrast, even, properly exposed, ect ect, it gives an automatic great look for the purpose; the way photography should be for the most part.
With the 7D, the one thing I would try is downloading some picture styles or fooling with them on camera, the built in ones never did anything for me. Also, maybe try lowering the exposure? The 7D image looks like it may be overexposed somehow. Also, a thing to keep in mind is that while I bet you'll end up solving this issue 95%, I'll bet that the problem that will never go away is the fact this camera will probably be picking up a few 'details' that your other may be glossing over. (meaning well, pimples, bumps, lumps, scabs, ect ect =P) It probably won't be severe though, just, it's not like this camera's blur goes down very low...
With the 7D, the one thing I would try is downloading some picture styles or fooling with them on camera, the built in ones never did anything for me. Also, maybe try lowering the exposure? The 7D image looks like it may be overexposed somehow. Also, a thing to keep in mind is that while I bet you'll end up solving this issue 95%, I'll bet that the problem that will never go away is the fact this camera will probably be picking up a few 'details' that your other may be glossing over. (meaning well, pimples, bumps, lumps, scabs, ect ect =P) It probably won't be severe though, just, it's not like this camera's blur goes down very low...
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Agreed, the exposures look different. There is more detail in the shirt in the 350D shot. The 350 colors look a bit warmer, but this is easily tweakable.
I think this is pretty common when going from camera to camera. The best colors I've ever found in a digital camera was the old Canon D60... the colors were gorgeous right off the card, it was like magic! When I moved to the 1DS, everything looked too clinical until you tweaked it.
I think this is pretty common when going from camera to camera. The best colors I've ever found in a digital camera was the old Canon D60... the colors were gorgeous right off the card, it was like magic! When I moved to the 1DS, everything looked too clinical until you tweaked it.
Popsiclestand
Well-known member
I guess some of the disagreement on this subject and those photos is how you think of photography and the process of photographing subjects.
Some photogs want the image to come out of the camera needing very little tweaking and with nothing needed on the front of their lens. Others think that the raw image should be as sharp and natural as possible and they will decide how much tweaking (to make things softer, change skin tone, etc) in editing software or by putting a filter on the lens (like a promist to make the image softer).
I am of the second school of thought on this, but I understand that different types of photography require different things.
As far as the blown out look in some parts of the first picture, that can be fixed by altering your exposure. Picture styles do help on the 7D and testing of any camera is necessary to establish a baseline look that the photog is happy with. Things like proper skin tone reproduction are relatively subjective things and do not necessarily mean that any one camera is better than the other in its ability to produce images.
Some photogs want the image to come out of the camera needing very little tweaking and with nothing needed on the front of their lens. Others think that the raw image should be as sharp and natural as possible and they will decide how much tweaking (to make things softer, change skin tone, etc) in editing software or by putting a filter on the lens (like a promist to make the image softer).
I am of the second school of thought on this, but I understand that different types of photography require different things.
As far as the blown out look in some parts of the first picture, that can be fixed by altering your exposure. Picture styles do help on the 7D and testing of any camera is necessary to establish a baseline look that the photog is happy with. Things like proper skin tone reproduction are relatively subjective things and do not necessarily mean that any one camera is better than the other in its ability to produce images.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
I'm glad Kholi posted on this thread. Jordan, your shot looks great... very nice colors... but in all fairness to the OP, as I've read through this thread it seems his original point is evaded. Let me put it this way... I've been shooting weddings on the side for over 3 years as a second, with a friend of mine. He's got a ton of Canon gear, including a couple 5D (mk1 and 2)... 40D, all L glass, etc. I've been using my Nikon the entire time... and all he ever talks about is how much he likes the color rendition from my best shots (none of which are touched before I give him a disk of what is usually an average 500 photos from a 10-12 hour day).
I totally prefer the shots from the 5Ds overall... and much prefer shooting with them over my Nikon, but I see what he means about the color... but that color was no accident.
Here's the deal... when I first got my Nikon... on day 3 I installed a custom color curve for "classic velvia" using a program called "tone-up".
I've got a t2i on the way now (for a lot of reasons, the least of which is the stock of L-glass that my friend has... interchangeability of lenses with the 5D on a shoot, etc.)... and I'm HOPING there's a way to upload a custom curve to the camera, like I did with the Nikon all those years ago.
To the OP: If you can load up a custom curve I'd highly recommend it in your case. I'm going to accept and use the t2i regardless, but I will look into a custom curve and if possible I'll try to set the native color curve to match what I've been getting from the Nikon (speaking on color alone). If I can't, I'll still be happy... but I don't see why the color point should be a touchy subject.
I totally prefer the shots from the 5Ds overall... and much prefer shooting with them over my Nikon, but I see what he means about the color... but that color was no accident.
Here's the deal... when I first got my Nikon... on day 3 I installed a custom color curve for "classic velvia" using a program called "tone-up".
I've got a t2i on the way now (for a lot of reasons, the least of which is the stock of L-glass that my friend has... interchangeability of lenses with the 5D on a shoot, etc.)... and I'm HOPING there's a way to upload a custom curve to the camera, like I did with the Nikon all those years ago.
To the OP: If you can load up a custom curve I'd highly recommend it in your case. I'm going to accept and use the t2i regardless, but I will look into a custom curve and if possible I'll try to set the native color curve to match what I've been getting from the Nikon (speaking on color alone). If I can't, I'll still be happy... but I don't see why the color point should be a touchy subject.
Perhaps it would be good to mention this post from earlier in the thread. I haven't tried this, because I haven't gotten my hands on a color temp meter, but Shane's approach to nailing WB shift looks promising for helping to match Canons (mine is a T2i too) with other cams.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
MattinSTL, Yes you can upload custom curves to the T2i just like you can with the other Canon DSLRs. I've got 3 uploaded myself. Though the ones I have loaded are more to prepare the image for grading, there are others that have other looks.
Before you do a custom curve though try out the different standards ones. Particularly, Neutral, Faithful, and Portrait.
Before you do a custom curve though try out the different standards ones. Particularly, Neutral, Faithful, and Portrait.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Thanks Perrone!
I'm very glad to hear that... and to anybody who's complaining that their cam (saying THEIR cam, not ALL 7Ds, etc.) is rendering skin-tones in a way they find displeasing... Why don't you fix it? Is there a fear that uploading a curve is going to hurt some other aspect of the image? If the t2i responds the way my Nikon did (and I suspect it will) then you can load up a curve with warmer tones w/o hurting the blues... My sky shots w/ people in them have wonderful blue gradient skies (almost like I'm using a polarizer) and yet the skin is very warm and pleasing... I can't imagine that's something anyone is being denied in their cam if you're willing to try a couple curves.
I'm going to try Perrone's advice before I go that route, but if I'm dissatisfied with the color response I'm simply going to change it. No worries.
The amazing shots you can see all over the net from these cams tells you this shouldn't be a problem. I'm in the same boat... I PS some images, but I need to be sure that MOST shots look good straight out of the camera.
On a side-note... I have to laugh WITH YOU a bit and say you were asking for it when you post 2 pics saying "this one is bad, this one is good" and in the bad pic the subject looks upset, and in the good one he's happy. You should laugh to yourself with that criticism and concede that point, rather then only defend it.
The overall frame is much better in the good one, with the even BG, etc... it reminds me of the filter comparisons with an 81B... actually that's EXACTLY what it looks like. Somebody should spoof those and sell "happy filters".
I'm very glad to hear that... and to anybody who's complaining that their cam (saying THEIR cam, not ALL 7Ds, etc.) is rendering skin-tones in a way they find displeasing... Why don't you fix it? Is there a fear that uploading a curve is going to hurt some other aspect of the image? If the t2i responds the way my Nikon did (and I suspect it will) then you can load up a curve with warmer tones w/o hurting the blues... My sky shots w/ people in them have wonderful blue gradient skies (almost like I'm using a polarizer) and yet the skin is very warm and pleasing... I can't imagine that's something anyone is being denied in their cam if you're willing to try a couple curves.
I'm going to try Perrone's advice before I go that route, but if I'm dissatisfied with the color response I'm simply going to change it. No worries.
The amazing shots you can see all over the net from these cams tells you this shouldn't be a problem. I'm in the same boat... I PS some images, but I need to be sure that MOST shots look good straight out of the camera.
On a side-note... I have to laugh WITH YOU a bit and say you were asking for it when you post 2 pics saying "this one is bad, this one is good" and in the bad pic the subject looks upset, and in the good one he's happy. You should laugh to yourself with that criticism and concede that point, rather then only defend it.
The overall frame is much better in the good one, with the even BG, etc... it reminds me of the filter comparisons with an 81B... actually that's EXACTLY what it looks like. Somebody should spoof those and sell "happy filters".