Canon 5D MKIV officially announced.

If you look at the best seller list for interchangeable lens cameras on amazon.com, you'll see that different bundles of Canon T5 or T6 cameras take 7 spots out of the top 10. Then there's the 5D4 (which is first right now but that happens at launch with most models), the D3300, and the a6300. I don't think Canon needs our pity. They made a stills camera that will probably be loved by stills shooters (who often care a lot more about things like AF and flash control than about dynamic range). They just are not interested in selling cameras TO ME, which is perfectly fine because Sony and Panasonic are.

I think for stills the gap with mirrorless is narrowing down quite fast, and Canon may find themselves at exactly the same spot as with point-and-shoot cameras: no matter the price or how good it is, PEOPLE JUST DON'T WANT ONE. Because a T5 and an a5100 are very different products: one is small and can be carried around easily. Look again at the top 10 amazon list: it's the T5 and T6 that are keeping Canon sales numbers so high.

Also, I don't want to buy "a real video camera". Well, I want to, but I don't have the budget. I'd be super happy to take a C300II or FS7, but within what I'm ready to pay the only thing that makes sense is a hybrid stills-video camera. Luckily, there are lots of AWESOME options from several brands, it just so happens that Canon doesn't want to be one of them.


Edit: as alerted by Dr_Jon here, rolling shutter looks pretty bad on this dpreview test. I can't take measurements from that because it's handheld, but it does look like the a6300, as they say in the video. And the a6300 has the worst RS I've measured. It may not be THAT bad, but it is bad.
 
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The title at the beginning says "4K rolling shutter", so I think all tests are done at 4K. And still irrelevant for video but yes, yikes.
 
So what's the Dynamic Range of this new camera for the video side ?
See no mention anywhere.
Probably because there is no log.
A bit sad if you ask me.
 
Based on the biker video 5D Mark IV looks about the same dynamic range as the 5D Mark III in video mode, around 8-9 stops. 1DX Mark II I gather is closer to 11-12 stops. (I'm probably way off because these numbers are based on no facts whatsoever)


I've seen at least one really nice video shot with the Canon 1DX Mark II.

 
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Run&Gun said:
But stop complaining and crying when still cameras with video functions don't live up to your expectations or have the performance and features of dedicated video cameras.
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I do not think most people here are complaining or crying; rather, I think they are slightly bemused.

They are bemused that Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and even photo-only brand Nikon have proven that it is perfectly possible to make a well-balanced photo/video hybrid in a DSLR form-factor with professionally viable & competitive image quality & features, at a reasonable price, yet, even now in 2016, Canon simply refuses to.
 
- I'm definitely not crying. Laughing would be too much. Bemused is a good description, thanks.

- DR: since there's no log, my bet is that DR is identical to that of the 5D3 in video mode, which was identical to that of the 5D2 in video mode. So, better sensor, more DR than old Canons in RAW stills, but you can't use it in video because PAY MORE.
 
From an engineering point of view, a "video only" camera, especially on the lower end, doesn't need a high megapixel count that a still does. In that regard, a C200 8.8MPX APS-C would have a slight - make it minuscule - advantage over 5D MKIV in performance but would be less expensive to manufacture due to not needing a full frame sensor of the 5D series. Then, Canon could invest these savings into a more advanced video processing and other features.

Of course, it would then need to include that C200 into its lineup. As of now ...
 
Is the C200 a camera? I've read you write it so many times that I'm actually believing it, haha
 
NorBro said:
Is the C200 a camera? I've read you write it so many times that I'm actually believing it, haha
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The model number and its position in the Canon cinema lineup - above C100 and below C300, as the digits would suggest - has been bandied about for about two years. Others speculated, claiming some connection to Canon and/or its various partners, that it would appear by the end of the 2016 calendar year.

The third bit of (mis)information was that it would be called C100 MKIII, with the specs identical to C200, essentially C100 with 4K.

These rumors have weight due to the current Canon roster not having a 4K pro model below C300 MKII at $12,000 (officially $16,000 even, with the $4,000 being listed as a discount/promotion) while Sony has had its FS-7 out already for two years and FS-5 for about ten months. Even admitting that the Japanese conglomerates carve up the market with more than a tacit nod to each other, the two year exclusivity that Sony has had with FS-7 seems to be bit long in the tooth.
 
Paul schefz said:
i am really not sure why anyone would think that the 5D MKIV would be a great stills camera? maybe compared to the MKII or MKIII? any D800, D810, A7RII is simply way better in pretty much every way....and cheaper....and almost 2 years old...the MKIV looks like to be a good/solid contender right now but i doubt it will even beat any of the existing still cameras (mirror or mirrorless) as an all around still camera....add in that one can use pretty much any mount lens on sony bodies....and the price difference?
from a still standpoint i think the motion jpeg route can come in handy for events to be able to pull good enough for emergency stills from video.....but in reality i have done that from 4K streams from red and sony cameras for a while, you don't need motion jpeg for that either....
the MKIV will sell like crazy but it makes no sense to me because no matter which way you look at it, there are far better solutions out there for any use....
i won't even go into the discussion that we of course do know that it might now finally be up to the level of 2 year old still cameras and sony and nikon will release new bodies within the next couple of months which will make the MKIV even worse....
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Paul,

Not sure if you are a stills photographer, cinematographer or just a video guy but I own both Nikon and Canon bodies besides a C100. You should do some research as far as the success of the respective companies. Nikon is literally on the verge of going under and their sales have been very poor, largely because they have gone to the Sony route of having too many models in the lineup, they constantly introduce models that overstep the category boundaries of cropped sensor, FF, etc. and they have confused the market. DSLRs, in general, are on their way out. While I love my Nikons, their future as an innovator and as a successful company is looking in doubt. Earnings and profit have been really sad for Nikon the past few years. Both Canon and Nikon have refused to cede to the mirrorless wave and that has lost both of them plenty of sales. I have shot plenty of pro stills jobs as well as quite a few Broadcast projects with the 5D MKII and 5D MKIII and the MKIV is probably not the best value on the market but it is still a solid stills camera and Canon will sell boatloads of them. Having the best spec and features list in rarely the main factors behind pros buying a camera. Which lenses they are committed to, color science and look, and many other factors come into play for pros besides just that the competition has some better specs/features.
 
jowei said:
If you don't have a collection of Canon glass, the choice is easier. Luckily for Canon, they have one of the best brand positioning in the whole industry and every new videographer will consider Canon when it comes to buying their first gear.

That would be a great course to offer in most film/broadcast schools, Equipment 101.
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The friend I just talked out of buying the 5D MKIV owns seven Canon lenses. She will be buying four new Fujinon lenses to go with her new XT2 she just ordered. Not that big of a deal, there is a healthy used Canon lens market, she'll quickly sell all of her Canon glass and will replace with the new Fujinon lenses. Most, but not all models hold their value pretty well. I have personally sold four of my Canon lenses for as much as I paid for them new after using each for 3-4 years. Of course, certain models are more desirable than others (24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8 IS II come to mind) and therefore hold their value even better.
 
IMO, the big problem with Nikon is that they had to play the second fiddle to Sony, while buying its technology from them. There have been all sort of rumors that Nikon could have acquired the video tech or joined forces with Samsung, whose own models never took off, but that hasn't materialized so far either. Its point&shoot style mirrorless 4K hybrids were supposed to go on sale this summer but that hasn't happened either to the earthquake and the subsequent damage to Sony's sensor plant. On specs, their beta models were very well received.

There also have been gossip that Nikon's relationship with Sony is decreasing in importance. D810 is over two years old and, if you count D800, it's a four year old design already. Assuming a roughly two year camera design cycle, one ought to see new high end models from Nikon soon.

Of course, D500 is rather crippled, not even coming close to what less expensive GH4 and now GH5 attempt to do on the video side.
 
DLD said:
Even admitting that the Japanese conglomerates carve up the market with more than a tacit nod to each other, the two year exclusivity that Sony has had with FS-7 seems to be bit long in the tooth.
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I always found the Keiretsu system interesting, but then what happens with the smaller cameras? We have the 5D Mark IV and the GH5 coming out...where's my new 4K/60p Sony fit in?
 
puredrifting said:
Paul,

Not sure if you are a stills photographer, cinematographer or just a video guy but I own both Nikon and Canon bodies besides a C100. You should do some research as far as the success of the respective companies. Nikon is literally on the verge of going under and their sales have been very poor, largely because they have gone to the Sony route of having too many models in the lineup, they constantly introduce models that overstep the category boundaries of cropped sensor, FF, etc. and they have confused the market. DSLRs, in general, are on their way out. While I love my Nikons, their future as an innovator and as a successful company is looking in doubt. Earnings and profit have been really sad for Nikon the past few years. Both Canon and Nikon have refused to cede to the mirrorless wave and that has lost both of them plenty of sales. I have shot plenty of pro stills jobs as well as quite a few Broadcast projects with the 5D MKII and 5D MKIII and the MKIV is probably not the best value on the market but it is still a solid stills camera and Canon will sell boatloads of them. Having the best spec and features list in rarely the main factors behind pros buying a camera. Which lenses they are committed to, color science and look, and many other factors come into play for pros besides just that the competition has some better specs/features.
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Nikon still makes a camera capable of producing a beautiful image. I have a few friends who are "Nikon Guys". One of the guys who I started out shooting for 'back in the day' has an 810 and has gone back to shooting stills for some work and has brought it on some shoots and shot some BTS type stuff of us and the stills are gorgeous. BUT, it does appear Nikon is not the powerhouse that they once were. You knew the winds were changing when even Ken Rockwell stopped being the Nikon acolyte that he once was and started leaning Canon. Of course, you do have to take EVERYTHING he says with a grain of salt.
 
NorBro said:
I always found the Keiretsu system interesting, but then what happens with the smaller cameras? We have the 5D Mark IV and the GH5 coming out...where's my new 4K/60p Sony fit in?
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Guessing the exact specs and approximate prices is akin to being a Kremlinologist in the old Soviet days, where an expert would try to read in between the lines of Pravda or look at the published TASS photos of the Soviets leaders and see who's standing next to whom - "My boy Gorby moved from third on the left to second on the right. He's rocketing up the ranks!". My attempts at Canikosonulogy would go like this - the companies have annual senior manager meetings where they negotiate these agreements on a variety of issues. At the core of these proceedings is each representative's aim to get the best deal for his own bosses. The first point of consensus is that, if a given company or companies already excel at a given niche, they're allowed to keep it unperturbed for some time. Thus, you have 1D X and D5 sitting at the top of the perch with nary a challenge.

I have no idea how they agree or disagree on specs -

- "You can't have H264"

- "Well, you can't have the auto focus"

- "If I can't have the auto focus, you can't have 60 fps"

- "But everyone has 60 fps these days. What you're asking me not to do is crazy"

- "OK, you can have 60 fps but only in 720"

- "How about 1080?"

- "1080i"

- "OK, fine. Now what about those BSI sensors?"

- "I'll make you as many as you want but only up to 1" in size".

- "But you're making it in MFT for Panny".

- "That's because Panny agreed to not make the $8,000 s35 pro model until 2020".

- "OK, fine. What's next?"

- "Drones".

- "I don't want drones. Do you want drones?"

- "Let the Chinese make drones. If they ever decide to make cameras, all hell will break lose".

Et cetera, et cetera.

The thing is they do nail their niches and there's always something new somewhere. It may not be in your preferred mount or in your favorite sensor size, but things do get made. With just the right amount of markup. I.E., 50% across the board. Not counting the lenses.
 
That is very un-Japanese. If they come to these agreements, it's more like: each one runs that conversation in his mind, the one says something like "with all respect, I think I would tend to want to say that we would like to have 1080p60 next year" and the other one says "since you are not using a modern codec, some might think your position is understandable". And everything else is understood without saying.
 
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