Canon 5D Mark II Training DVD available

1. For the third time now, I never said Philips product was bad. On the contrary, I am sure that it is a very good learning DVD for the beginner.

2. I am critiquing the high price

3. I am not comparing free content with Philips DVD, at least not directly. I am not saying that the free content out there is better than Philips product, I am only saying that you CAN learn all the stuff by reading up on free sources (forums, websites...)

4. I do not appreciate when people turn around the words in my mouth

5. Jason, I never insulted or said something bad about anyone, simply stating my opinion which still is that I find it too expensive. You give me a warning and a point, saying three points and I am out (he just mailed me). Do you really find that justified? On what grounds, please point out.

6. For every product there is critique and there are opinions (positive and negative). If one can't state her / his opinion (which I did without saying something bad about anyone) then this forum is not worth participating in.

Jason Ramsey said:
What are you critiquing exactly? You haven't even seen the thing, so how is anything you are saying more than presumptuous and opinionated at best?

Anyways... there is an appropriate way to express yourself here, and I'm tired so I don't feel like being patient with you.

Read the forum guidelines and when you can learn to express yourself in a more courteous and respectful manner to the members of this board, then try again.

Until then....

Later,
Jason
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Jason, I never insulted or said something bad about anyone
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Might want to look over your posts again... starting with the first one in this thread and continuing on from there...

You can critique until you are blue in the face for all I care (though I find it difficult to see how one can critique something which they have never actually used... stating an opinion on price is not a critique by any means, unless it is also backed by having used the product in question and then comparing it to other "free" alternatives... otherwise, it's just an opinion.

Anyways... "critique" away... just do it without the ATTITUDE to the point that your posts are getting reported in the first place.

...then this forum is not worth participating in
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On second thought... maybe you are right...

If you have valid points you wish to make, surely you can take the time to do so in a more productive and respectful manner that doesn't include calling people or things "stupid". It's really not too much to ask, and not worth getting so worked up over when asked to do so.

Later,
Jason
 
See that's what I mean. I don't like when people turn around the words in my mouth.
I never called anyone stupid. The stupid reference I made was in general, if you can't see that from the context then I can't help it.
If Barry feels personally attacked I can't help it either because I didn't attack him. I never said Barry is stupid or anything like it. But apparently I can say all I want and I'm always wrong... so never mind.

And on a side note, I have read a lot of other posts from other people (and Barry) speaking to others way harsher / with an attitude than I have here.... anyway, it's not worth it. So thanks, but no thanks.
 
Very sorry that you feel that way, Marc. As I mentioned, having actually watched this disc, I think it's a reasonable price to get that kind of know-how from a major pro in the field. That you can put all that down to a rejection on price point without having seen the disc in question is a shame for you but what can I say. To each his or her own. If you don't wish to pay a certain price for high-quality training on the 5D, that's your right.

Noah
 
One question is Phillip Bloom an official sponsor of DVXuser? If not isn't this sticky promoting his DVD, whether there is criticism or not? The first post seems to pretty clearly indicate that it is.
What are the rules on promotion here on this site? Doesn't the fact that this has been turned into a sticky raise a few eyebrows here?
 
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I wish it was cheaper and if could be sold cheaper it would be. But yes, like everything on the internet if you search hard enough you can learn anything you want from there, including how to be a doctor.

I hope people who buy it and the 7D one will find it useful. So far the feedback has been great. There is and will continue to be a wealth of free information on my site and I still try to contribute as much as I can to the forums. Time is always hard to find.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think it's fair to say you would not be a customer for this product. I also think it's fair to say that there are many people who will be.

Fine, it's said, so now we can move on.
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I think you covered it well in your first response Barry. The market will determine things.

Having said that, yes I think that there is a finite window for a video at this price point. Someone (perhaps you) will bring one out at a much lower price and then everyone will buy it first... and then decide if they need the more expensive one. Here in the US the market is quite large, and those of us who make instructional videos (myself included) tend to price lower and go for volume. In Europe, they seem to prefer the alternate approach. Neither one is wrong... as you said.

Nice conversing with you Barry, it's been a while...
 
Well said Noah.

Of course, at $120, and $135 for the 7D version, he has left the door open for people like you and Barry to walk through.

Philip does contribute a lot to the community... perhaps we should simply look at this as a way of compensating him... like at a charity fund-raiser, where you pay a higher price as a means of supporting his continued efforts?

Just a thought... let the flaming begin...
 
As a business owner, I'm always saddened by the fact that people think a product should be sold for cheaper ....even if they've never produced a similar product or have no idea of cost factors.

I for one, like buy training DVD's even if I glean only one hint from them, because it's part of the ongoing learning cycle. A good way to stay sharp and rethink things. I would assume that anything from Philip would allow me to learn even more than one or two things:)

I wish Philip the best with selling the DVD's and if I keep my 7d I will be buying one for sure when that version comes out.

Best,

Jason
 
youngindiefilms said:
See that's what I mean. I don't like when people turn around the words in my mouth.
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Allow me to put your own words there then.
youngindiefilms said:
I never called anyone stupid. The stupid reference I made was in general...
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Rewind...

youngindiefilms said:
....
And this is where I say stop the bullshi*. I mean, COME ON. Are you guys really that stupid that you have to buy a learning DVD for 120 US$??? Not to mention the regular price is 175 US$!

... it's a big rip off, bad value. Sorry Philip, but that's what it is.
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youngindiefilms said:
... the DVD is preying on those people...
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"Bullshi*"
"COME ON" all caps
"Are you guys really that stupid ..."
"big rip off"
"preying on people"
?????
Does that sound like calm discourse. An opinion rationally stated about a product you've never sampled as your strong suspicion? Or does that sound like your flaming something you you have never used and calling anyone stupid who disagrees with you?

As for generality "You guys" can only be inferred as either
1. The group of people you're talking to. You don't walk up to a table of friends and say "I'm leaving now if you guys want a ride" then act surprised when they all pile in your car and say "No I meant you guys in a general sense." Similarly, you don't say to a thread "you guys are stupid if ..." without specifically, not generally, calling everyone that falls into the "if" part stupid.
or
2. Anyone that comes to this thread interested in the DVD.
But it's both really. You're talking to us "you guys" and with a preemptive strike on anyone that comes in and would wan to buy the DVD.

And as for professionals that just learned it on their own ... yeah they just went out and played. They never read a book. Never had a mentor. If I said anyone that thinks that is stupid, would you somehow take that as not to mean you personally? Would it just be a general comment?

But no those people obviously read books or had mentors or watched training DVDs or some combination therein or all of the above.

Some of us don't live near Phillip Bloom and he doesn't have availability to go out and spend a day with all of us.

Personally - though I'm not a DP per se- I got my start with Barry's DVD for the DVX. I know others, like Timur Civan, a professional DP did the same.

And book, mentor, DVD all have advantages. I hardly think Barry, or Phillip Bloom, or Noah or whomever would come over to my house and restate all their wisdom when I pack up my gear at night before every gig. I got into this habit with Barry's HVX DVD before I'd go out and shoot for clients the next day. It might have been a couple of months in between these corporate gigs I used to do in NY and it worked great to have a little refresher course on all the settings before I went out in the field the next day.

For some folks this DVD will be invaluable.

I see so many films at festivals, etc. where I'm like "if only they knew about X settings, if only they knew how to bring the blacks down in post and desat a bit, if only they knew how to expose digital..." A DVD like this may not make you a master right away, but I'd say for the novice going out to shoot a super low budget feature this would be $120 well spent even out of a $500 budget if it's the difference in quickly knowing what the hell you are doing vs. making lots of stupid little mistakes that significantly impare the final image.
 
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