1DC: Canon 1DC's big price drop!...in Hong Kong = $7K

N

Nicholas Natteau

Veteran
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/01/canon-hong-kong-officially-lower-1d-c-price-7000/

The other Cinema EOS cameras in Hong Kong break down as follows…C500 is $124,000 ($16k USD) the C300 is $93,500 ($12k USD) and the C100 Mark II approximately $43,000 ($5600) so quite similar to the US prices. So if you’re thinking of buying a new 1D C, you might want to wait to see what happens to the $12,000 list price in the US between now and next week.

According to a Canon rep, the price drop is meant to challenge the Sony FS700.
In Hong Kong, Canon apparently lowered the price to 62,000 HK or $8K, but at least one local Hong Kong dealer is now selling it for $7K

Could this mean that a 1DC successor is on the horizon???
 
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Hmm, possibly, possibly not. If the 1DCII was based around a 1 series body again, I'd imagine they wouldn't announce it until the new 1 series is released. Then again, maybe not, maybe the next cinema eos 4K dslr won't be built around a 1 series body.

Either way, it's great news and puts the 1DC in a reasonable price bracket where I'd actually consider purchasing it, being a photo/video guy.
 
I do almost the same amount of video and photo if the 1dc really drops it might be a no brainier. Right now I have a c100 and I'm looking to switch to another canon camera I'm dabbling between the c100 II and a used c300 (to me seems better than c100 II because of the codec, just hate AVCHD and external recorders). So any recommendations? does anyone have a c300/100 to 1dc comparation?
 
For reference - C500 is indeed shown for $15,999 at B&H (once $30,000 MSRP) for either PL or EF mounts, C300 for $11,999 including the Dual Pixel update (originally $15,000 without the Dual Pixels, which is currently offered for $11,499) and C100 MK I for $3,999 (once $6,499, IIRC).

1D C is still $11,999 on the same site.

One has to suspect that the whole Canon Cinema lineup is due for an update. Maybe, there'll be a few announcements at the CP+ in a few weeks (though more likely at the NAB'15).
 
How did the 1DC do for Canon?
I don't see that many around where everyone and their brother has a C100/C300. I think success or lack of will be real reason if we see a vrs 2 or not. Its hard to sell a 4K dslr for over $10k these days where at the time of launch it was really one of a kind. I guess it depends on what Canon does with the 5D line or if they combine for a mid priced 5DC at $6K. The 1DC line is one Canon product I have no clue where it goes where the other lines of C cameras seem fairly straight forward.
 
Edry, I have both a C100 and a 1DC. I actually wouldn't want to replace one with the other as they have both have very different strengths. I do two camera shoots with them, though, and they work quite well together and have similar color spaces and resolutions in S35 mode. The C100 is slightly sharper than the 1DC in S35 mode and picks up more variations on green than the 1DC based on shooting a color chart.

I doubt that there will be a 1DC II. Canon has not released a firmware update in over a year for the 1DC and every indication is that it is selling really poorly. I'm guessing that they have given up on the project and will permanently split their Cinema line from their DSLR line. Different teams with very different price points. The 1DC is the red headed step child that nobody wants to deal with.
 
Thanks cpreston. I understand that they both have their strengths and weaknesses and ideally id love to own both, but that would be something that i cant afford. Right now i have a 6d for stills and the c100 for filmmaking, im not particuarlly 100% happy with either. The 6d autofocus is crappy and the c100 well as i said AVCHD is not really welcomed here and dont like ext recorders . So there isnt a perfect camera but i sure want to do the best i could do. Im just leaning more towards the 1dc because its superb still quality in stills and videos plus it records 4k which in a way is more future proof than a c300. However the 1dc isnt perfect either and im not sure if its worth loosing the nd filters and all the things that comes along with a proper video camera. As you can see my mind is going all over the place with this.
 
Having shot 4K with the GH4 and Sony A7s+Shogun, I still like the 1DC's 4K image quality best, above all when it comes to skin tones, and that it can shoot cinema 4K without an external monitor. I'm really hoping Canon does make a 1DC II that would include such vital tools as focus assist or peaking. If not, then I really hope they offer such changes in a 1DC firmware update.
 
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cpreston said:
... I doubt that there will be a 1DC II. Canon has not released a firmware update in over a year for the 1DC and every indication is that it is selling really poorly. I'm guessing that they have given up on the project and will permanently split their Cinema line from their DSLR line. Different teams with very different price points. The 1DC is the red headed step child that nobody wants to deal with.
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When 1D C came out two years ago, it was the lowest priced 4K camera on the market. Even when FS700 was upgraded to 4K capable a year ago, it's combo with Q7 was about $14K for a ready-to-shoot combo.

However, since then, a slew of 4K cameras and camcorders came out, from GH4 and NX-1 to A7s (Shogun aided) and FS-7. By January of 2015, a $12,000 1D C seems horribly overpriced.

Canon's plans have been bandied about early and often but they have so many models to replace that a single product is virtually left outside of the debate. If anyone wants to scour the company's various models, they have dozens of high end pieces, from their cinema line to the higher end camcorders to the photo-video hybrids and, realistically speaking, every model above $1,000 should be 4K enabled by the end of 2015. Panasonic has already done it in the sub-$1,000 hybrids and camcorders consumer area. Sony has sub-$1,000 4K camcorders and will have to soon offer hybrids with this feature too. Canon will have to respond and fight for its market share. Where and how is what it will have to decide.
 
DLD said:
However, since then, a slew of 4K cameras and camcorders came out, from GH4 and NX-1 to A7s (Shogun aided) and FS-7. By January of 2015, a $12,000 1D C seems horribly overpriced.
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That is effectively the same as saying that since you can buy a camera like the GH4 at $1600 the 1Dx at $6000 is too expensive. As if they had any similarity what so ever.

It's strange, but since 4k has been pretty rare before, now all of a sudden it has become the great equalizer. As if all cameras with 4k capability stand on even footing with each other.

What has happened now is that it has become possible to buy entry level cameras with 4k. You get them at entry level prices, with entry level sensor sizes, entry level picture profiles recording to entry level codecs.

I admit that this is a gross over-simplification, but I think you all understand my point.

The Sony A7s seems to be somewhat of an exception: full frame, Sony's real log profiles. Camera body is still compact camera style and for some headline features, including 4k (and realistically S-log2), you need to go external recorder. The necessity of an external recorder, regardless of total bundle price, might very well make it a deal breaker.

One might say, the 1Dc has been equally overpriced since day one. But still, to this day, it remains the only camera to do what it does.

I think the 1Dc was born because someone at Canon realized that it was technically possible. 4k was unique at the time (internal recording even more so) and since Canon "needed to include" a 1Dx in the price, they chose to position it at the C300 level. With the novelty of 4k diminishing, I doubt we will see a 1Dc mkII. Best case scenario is that 4k trickles down into the normal camera range (inevitable) and that Canon chooses to include Canon Log in the higher end DSLRs. This I don't feel so certain about. But to me, Canon Log is a very big part of the puzzle when it comes to the 1Dc's cinematic image.

My estimate for next level image including 422, 10bit or better, we will need to buy a C300/500 mkII. Or, you know, pick up a C500 today. A C500, O7Q+ including a permanent Canon raw license is around $19.700 as I write this.
 
The 1DC is my favourite camera ever, but I would never try to scrape up 10 grand for it, or 7. Maybe if it fell under 5 I'd be tempted...but if the 1DX is more than that I don't see how the 1DC could be lower. But damn there is something about that image.
 
I think throughout the year we're going to see 4k in most of the Canon refreshes, from the Rebel, to the 5dmk4, to the 1dx mkII, to the consumer and prosumer camcorders. They have to be able to check that box since competitors on the video side are leaving them in the dust.
 
AndreeOnline said:
That is effectively the same as saying that since you can buy a camera like the GH4 at $1600 the 1Dx at $6000 is too expensive. As if they had any similarity what so ever.

It's strange, but since 4k has been pretty rare before, now all of a sudden it has become the great equalizer. As if all cameras with 4k capability stand on even footing with each other.

What has happened now is that it has become possible to buy entry level cameras with 4k. You get them at entry level prices, with entry level sensor sizes, entry level picture profiles recording to entry level codecs.

I admit that this is a gross over-simplification, but I think you all understand my point...
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4K has indeed become a great equalizer, making camera manufacturers justify heavy financial outlays for their higher end products since something like LX-100 can already create beautiful images for your average consumer out of a $900 investment. For the pros, the work flow is paramount but one can achieve that in a $3,500 camcorder as well.

So, forgetting the major motion picture market, what do manufacturers have to do for someone to pay over $10,000 for their equipment when Samsung NX1 is already used to shoot a Korean TV drama and the handheld Project Runway clips with the image quality sufficient for a TV viewer? And NX1, lest anyone forgets, is a $,1600 camera.

And, projecting three years forward from today, which is the length of Canon's average product cycle, how many $6,000 cameras can any company sell in 2018 anyway?

There is just a ton of variables for Canon - and its competitors - to ponder.

Grüße. Bis bald.
 
DLD said:
4K…
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My thinking is this: once 4k has established itself, products like the cheaper consumer cameras will relate to more expensive equipment just the same way they do today. The same people/groups of people that were using GH2s and the like will be using the GH7 when the time comes. The same is true for Alexa/RED users. There is a moving target in the large price gap between $2k to $25k ($50k+) where, depending on markets, professional "price/performance products" will continue to do well.

What's happening now is that no one is "forced" into high end gear just to shoot 4k. Ultimately there will be 'consumer 4k IQ' and 'professional 4k IQ'. The Canon 1Dc made a bit of a splash when it was EBU approved for 1080p broadcast delivery. Even in 2013, when everything was HD and had been for a long time, amazingly few cameras fulfil formal broadcast criteria that specify a certain color depth, low tolerance for aliasing/moiré and such things.

But as a final note, as it has been proven time and again: at the end of the day content is king. Anyone with the right skills can pick up any camera and create something worthwhile.

DLD said:
Grüsse. Bis bald.
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=)
 
AndreeOnline said:
My thinking is this: once 4k has established itself, products like the cheaper consumer cameras will relate to more expensive equipment just the same way they do today...
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I agree on everything ... but, at some point, you're looking at the diminishing returns on all fronts, including image quality, work flow, post, etc.

So, the image acquisition market is indeed compacting at a terrific pace and it's very, very difficult - make it impossible - to predict the various price/value charts years down the road. Panasonic, which must have a huge marketing department, had no idea that it'd have such a huge Schlager (hah!) on its hand with GH4. After releasing the camera, they found the demand exceeding the production by an almost double, forcing them to stop the manufacturing line for some other camera and re-equip it for more GH4's.

The best option I would undertake is to make fewer models but make sure they're as feature laden as they can be with the currently available technology per major price point. Otherwise, these companies are looking at a lot of dead inventory on their shelves because the pace of obsolescence in this market is amazing. Remember, as we're talking about a better 4K, NHK is already releasing 8K cameras and data sheets. Even if that is an high end pro sport/motion picture market right now, some of that will trickle down to the low end pro level too soon.
 
Disclaimer: Sorry! I didn't really the whole thread.

Even at $7,000 the 1DC is outrageously overpriced in my opinion EXCEPT for the fact that it is basically a 1DX as well. Though if you are not into stills, then that doesn't really matter, and its still far too expensive for what it is as a video camera. The codec sucks. You can't edit with it, so you have to transcode. File sizes are huge as well. Its just a cumbersome workflow. Though I do agree, the image is breathtaking!

At the same time, the 1DX costs $6800, so I highly doubt they would drop the 1DC to $7000, because that would obsolete the 1DX. $8000 or $9000 seems more like it. Of course, Sony is rumored to have a new 4K DSLR on the market soon, and knowing Sony, it is going to have amazing specs at an incredible price. So no matter what, I am waiting till NAB :)
 
Yea, I agree. Even $7k for a new 1dc is a bit much. I'm sure the new version will have wi-fi and a better codec. Hopefully some other bells and whistles. Would love face detection on L glass. None of that center frame stuff. Now is just not a good time to purchase.
 
Would love the 1dc mark II to have 4k raw ability, wi-fi, modular XLR ability, face detection on L glass, 100000 ISO, prores4444 codec and a $10k price tag.

just dream'n
 
Omar N said:
Even at $7,000 the 1DC is outrageously overpriced in my opinion EXCEPT for the fact that it is basically a 1DX as well.
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LOL, I guess.

Omar N said:
The codec sucks. You can't edit with it, so you have to transcode.
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The codec does not suck. A sucky codec is a codec that produces compression/and or motion artefacts. A transcode is definitely recommended (and automatically done in FCPX).

Omar N said:
File sizes are huge as well.
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Well, do you want the sucky 4k quality, or the good one?

Omar N said:
Though I do agree, the image is breathtaking!
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At least there's that. One small consolation.
 
Perhaps "suck" is a bit of an over exaggeration, but when compared with other 4K codecs from the competitors, I can hardly say it is among the best. Sony's 4K XAVC is remarkably efficient and does not require a transcode. Red's 4K raw is absolutely brilliant as well. Both also produce very reasonable file sizes. Though I do realize the price differences as well.
 
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