C200: Can you control the C200 with ANY touchscreen?

Jaime Valles

Jaime Valles

Veteran
Potentially dumb question...

Can a Canon C200 be controlled with a touchscreen via HDMI and/or SDI? More specifically, can I buy a C200B and an Atomos Ninja Inferno and have full access to the touchscreen autofocus face-tracking in the C200B? Or do I need Canon's specific LM-V1 4" LCD Monitor and (ridiculously expensive) UN-5 Unit Cable for that?

In other words, can a C200B be used with nothing but a battery, lens and external third-party monitor? If I don't have to buy Canon's touchscreen, cable and side grip, it makes the 200B WAY more attractive to me price-wise.
 
You can use your phone or tablet for touch to focus using the wifi feature, but the video is super laggy and probably 10fps. Personally, I don't find it very useful for everyday use. Other than that, there is no touchscreen functionality for the C200 on anything other than the LM-V1 monitor. SmallHD and relative newcomer Portkeys have hinted that touch functionality for the C200 might be coming to their monitors, but nothing has officially been announced yet.

Personally, I operate this camera with the native LCD and an additional high-bright monitor. It's really not that bulky and gives me the best of both worlds.
 
One thing to add that may not be talked about a lot.

So...face tracking just sucks. It sucks a lot for most situations unless it's a sitting head interview. Object tracking is definitely the way to go if you want to use autofocus on moving subjects. You can just track their head if that is what you want.

When you connect your phone or tablet to the C200...it does something that the camera can not do...at least to my knowledge. It allows for dynamic touch object tracking. Meaning...where ever you touch the camera automatically just locks on to that new subject. On the camera touch screen...you need to program a button...press it...select the target...then it tracks. If you want to change targets...you need to go through that process again.

Connecting a device changes that. Its way easier to just touch anywhere on the device and it just immediately changes the target. Its super fast and I find that method of autofocus to be the money spot for Canon autofocus. Face tracking is garbage in my book unless it's a planned/rehearsed shot or an interview. Hardly ever works otherwise. Especially bad for musicians. Stick a mic in front of them and the C200 has no clue that it's a face. Loses them constantly.

The 12 bit RAW its just absolutely wonderful though. Very happy with the image.
 
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ReelWorksMedia said:
One thing to add that may not be talked about a lot.

So...face tracking just sucks. It sucks a lot for most situations unless it's a sitting head interview. Object tracking is definitely the way to go if you want to use autofocus on moving subjects. You can just track their head if that is what you want.

When you connect your phone or tablet to the C200...it does something that the camera can not do...at least to my knowledge. It allows for dynamic touch object tracking. Meaning...where ever you touch the camera automatically just locks on to that new subject. On the camera touch screen...you need to program a button...press it...select the target...then it tracks. If you want to change targets...you need to go through that process again.

Connecting a device changes that. Its way easier to just touch anywhere on the device and it just immediately changes the target. Its super fast and I find that method of autofocus to be the money spot for Canon autofocus. Face tracking is garbage in my book unless it's a planned/rehearsed shot or an interview. Hardly ever works otherwise. Especially bad for musicians. Stick a mic in front of them and the C200 has no clue that it's a face. Loses them constantly.

The 12 bit RAW its just absolutely wonderful though. Very happy with the image.
Click to expand...

Whoa, that sucks! I thought it worked like on the 1DX II where all I have to do is touch the person's face and it tracks it. No programming button or any nonsense like that. Object tracking works exactly the same way. The camera simply knows that what I've touched is an object or a face, and responds accordingly.

Hrmph... why would they make it so much more complicated on their cinema cameras, when they had it perfectly figured out on the 1DX II?
 
Because the cameras come from two different divisions. I would assume different people are working on them - maybe even on different floors or parts of the building (I don't know) - and sometimes probably not even aware of each other's work.

Most camera guys/gals also don't know (through no fault of their own) how much better DPAF works on Canon's DSLR/mirrorless cameras (like actually focusing and staying in focus). They are stills cameras and AF is one of their main focuses, so it makes sense to me.
 
Jaime Valles said:
Whoa, that sucks! I thought it worked like on the 1DX II where all I have to do is touch the person's face and it tracks it. No programming button or any nonsense like that. Object tracking works exactly the same way. The camera simply knows that what I've touched is an object or a face, and responds accordingly.

Hrmph... why would they make it so much more complicated on their cinema cameras, when they had it perfectly figured out on the 1DX II?
Click to expand...

I'm going to keep digging to see if there is anything buried in the menu that allows this...but I have not found it. Right now, I have the hand grip button programmed to select the object....then I have to touch the screen for it to latch on. With the phone...it happens immediately as soon as I touch somewhere.

Face tracking on the other hand has been a mess in doc style shooting and I find it not usable for professional work. Object tracking is great...but works best when a device is linked.

If someone has a work around for getting immediate touch response object tracking to work on the C200 itself (without a connected device) please let me know. I have been trying to get that to work but there does not seem to be an option and the menu and youtube tutorials do not talk about that functionality.

A little bummed about how bad face tracking actually is. I had veeery high expectations for Canon's autofocus. Through these work arounds...I would say its "passable at times" but it will not blow your mind.
 
@ReelWorksMedia

Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea about this capability. What a huge oversight on Canon's part. I wonder if there is a way to connect a phone to the camera via USB for a better connection.
 
QuickHitRecord said:
@ReelWorksMedia

Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea about this capability. What a huge oversight on Canon's part. I wonder if there is a way to connect a phone to the camera via USB for a better connection.
Click to expand...

That would be great...though I have not heard anyone mention it...and I have watched a lot of setup videos and read through manuals. I'll keep digging though. Sometimes these very particular things are not on the surface. I'll play with it more tonight.

Aside from these little frustrations....the image it spits out is absolutely lovely and a pleasure to work with.

I doubt the USB phone thing is possible as the only instruction is to connect via a LAN and type the actual IP address into a web browser. I had better expectations from Canon on this. It just feels like a wonky process that was put in place years ago and they have never updated the process.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
I'm going to keep digging to see if there is anything buried in the menu that allows this...but I have not found it. Right now, I have the hand grip button programmed to select the object....then I have to touch the screen for it to latch on. With the phone...it happens immediately as soon as I touch somewhere.

Face tracking on the other hand has been a mess in doc style shooting and I find it not usable for professional work. Object tracking is great...but works best when a device is linked.

If someone has a work around for getting immediate touch response object tracking to work on the C200 itself (without a connected device) please let me know. I have been trying to get that to work but there does not seem to be an option and the menu and youtube tutorials do not talk about that functionality.

A little bummed about how bad face tracking actually is. I had veeery high expectations for Canon's autofocus. Through these work arounds...I would say its "passable at times" but it will not blow your mind.
Click to expand...

I too stopped using face tracking a few months after I got the C200, too unreliable and inconsistent. When it locks on, it can be very good but it often just loses the lock on the face.
Object tracking works well but as noted, is a bit of a PITA to setup quickly. I just use zone AF-C or sometime one touch for certain circumstances. Once in a while I will also use manual focus too but it can be an exercise in frustration with fly by wire lenses.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
It just feels like a wonky process that was put in place years ago and they have never updated the process.
Click to expand...

That's exactly right...and that also applies to other camera features that are questioned. They are worked on and finalized months if not a year or two before the cameras are released, and then at that point could be outdated or sometimes don't seem very understandable.
 
This is so upsetting. It's making me completely reconsider my entire camera upgrade strategy going forward. I was thinking about putting together the funds for a C200, thinking I would get the ease-of-use of my C100 combined with the awesome 1DX II auto focus and 4K raw, but if the face tracking auto focus on the C200 isn't up to par, then no dice.

I'd almost rather get an external recorder to use with the 1DX II for unlimited record time for long events (which is most of my work). It would be in HD only, but that's fine for most of what I do. For sit down interviews, I record internally in 4K. Audio goes into my Zoom F8. Save myself a whole lot of money by not buying a C200, continue getting amazing face-tracking auto focus with really great image quality.

So disappointed...
 
Well, I haven't been using the camera for as long as @ReelWorksMedia. But I also came from the C100 and it does feel like a significant upgrade. I did notice fairly quickly that DPAF is not bulletproof. Face-tracking does miss sometimes, which is one of the reasons I think it's important to have a separate monitor so that you can see when this happens. But object tracking has been pretty invaluable to me so far. Yes, it's another button to press. However, it has allowed me to get shots that I never would have been able to pull off with my C100 unless I had someone else pulling focus. Or I have also connected my phone via wifi a few times and had someone else pull focus with that. So, all is not lost. I've never used a 1DX ii or EOS-R so I have no baseline for DPAF efficacy, but I still think that the C200 represents a solid value.
 
If you're coming from a C100's DPAF then it's a big upgrade (C200's DPAF).

The 1DX Mark II and 5D Mark IV and EOS R are Canon's best 4K DPAF cameras.

The Sony a6400 is the world's best video AF camera, IMO. Absolutely unbreakable. If Sony puts this technology into the FX9 or whatever, mother of god...I might even buy one for $10,000, lol.
 
Jaime Valles said:
This is so upsetting. It's making me completely reconsider my entire camera upgrade strategy going forward. I was thinking about putting together the funds for a C200, thinking I would get the ease-of-use of my C100 combined with the awesome 1DX II auto focus and 4K raw, but if the face tracking auto focus on the C200 isn't up to par, then no dice.

I'd almost rather get an external recorder to use with the 1DX II for unlimited record time for long events (which is most of my work). It would be in HD only, but that's fine for most of what I do. For sit down interviews, I record internally in 4K. Audio goes into my Zoom F8. Save myself a whole lot of money by not buying a C200, continue getting amazing face-tracking auto focus with really great image quality.

So disappointed...
Click to expand...

If we were having beers and you asked for my honest opinion about whether you should get the camera based on the auto focus differences between the 1DX2, I would say that that probably shouldn’t hold you back. It is a fantastic camera it’s just a slightly different method to get the results you want. And object tracking works very very well. I was just a little taken back because I expected face tracking to do the job the object tracking does. As far as the process of object tracking it only takes a split second and you just have to adjust to that style and then it’s not a problem at all.
 
Jaime Valles said:
This is so upsetting. It's making me completely reconsider my entire camera upgrade strategy going forward. I was thinking about putting together the funds for a C200, thinking I would get the ease-of-use of my C100 combined with the awesome 1DX II auto focus and 4K raw, but if the face tracking auto focus on the C200 isn't up to par, then no dice.

I'd almost rather get an external recorder to use with the 1DX II for unlimited record time for long events (which is most of my work). It would be in HD only, but that's fine for most of what I do. For sit down interviews, I record internally in 4K. Audio goes into my Zoom F8. Save myself a whole lot of money by not buying a C200, continue getting amazing face-tracking auto focus with really great image quality.

So disappointed...
Click to expand...

I use the AF for:

- some interviews. You need enough light though. For example A cam is fine but if B cam is on the side with more shadow it can struggle.

- product shots. Sliding/panning without having to focus is amazing.

- specialized shots - e.g. following a car/horse on a long lens, also amazing.

- I've also used it on a steadicam walking towards/away from camera in a straight line with some success depending on the lighting.

While it's really really nice to have for certain situations, there's no way you can rely on it for everything.

Just rent one for the day and do lots and lots of tests. One thing which could help is changing your focus speed settings. You get more control if using a canon lens. This is where a lag can be good because it doesn't hunt instantly.

Another thing I've done that can be a major help is assign a button to lock the focus. Then button on/off as needed e.g. if people are walking in front of the camera, a huge pillar goes between you and the subject etc. I'm sure these aren't revolutionary tips if you've used the 1dx ii but just some things to include if you test yourself.
 
I used AF with my Canon 18-80 on a professional well-lit set with multiple actors going from 10ft to 2ft in front of the lens. Worked almost perfectly in most situations. My 1st AC was a little bummed he didn't get to pull focus though.
 
There is a Portkeys monitor that allows you to control almost every setting of the camera from its' touchscreen


I'm getting a C200B and this monitor. Canon's 3 inch display and overpriced cable is just a joke
 
I was getting excited about this until...

"The only thing that you lose is being able to set your dual pixel autofocus point."

Too bad. Being able to select object tracking by touch is the only reason I still have the LCD attached to my camera.
 
QuickHitRecord said:
I was getting excited about this until...

"The only thing that you lose is being able to set your dual pixel autofocus point."

Too bad. Being able to select object tracking by touch is the only reason I still have the LCD attached to my camera.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's the ONLY thing I'm interested in doing via touchscreen.

I've given this a whole lot of thought, and I've basically come to the conclusion that I'll be better off with another 1DX II instead of any of the new cinema cameras (C200, C500 II). The DPAF face-tracking and object-tracking on the 1DX II are amazing, and incredibly simple to use.

But before I buy another 1DX II, I'm going to wait to see what the Mark III has to offer, which should be officially announced in February (according to the rumor sites). If it has demonstrably better video image quality and DPAF, I might just get two of those instead.
 
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