Worzel Gummidge
Carbonite Member
Seems to be the only discussion going on and pointless if you own a C300, C500 or 1D-C......:huh:
C100: Can we rename to C100 forum?
- Thread starter Worzel Gummidge
- Start date
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
Could it be that Canon is selling several times as many C100s as C300s or C500s?
Not sure what the complaint is...Nobody's stopping you from discussing the C300 here so please do contribute. Some of the issues are similar so you'll still get some value from posts on the other C series cameras.
Not sure what the complaint is...Nobody's stopping you from discussing the C300 here so please do contribute. Some of the issues are similar so you'll still get some value from posts on the other C series cameras.
Run&Gun
Veteran
It's funny that you say that. I actually had a discussion with the Canon rep for my area yesterday while CPS was at the 600. He was looking for professional feedback on the C300 and it skirted onto the C100, as well. He said they are selling a lot of them(and losing a lot of sales on the C300 because Canon Japan won't listen to what needs to be done/we want done to the C300 for it to work in a real professional environment/ecosystem). I told him in my market and market segment, the C100 is virtually un-known, non-existent and more tellingly, un-wanted. I'm not making a personal indictment on the camera(I've never used a 100), just stating how it is.
And yes, a lot applies across all of the Cx00 models, not just a specific one.
Curnsie
Well-known member
It sounds like Canon Japan need to read this forum more often!
Run&Gun
Veteran
Hopefully they are starting to get it. I received a survey/questionnaire from Canon before NAB that was asking for input/feedback on these cameras and also what I'd like to see down the road. The rep I spoke with yesterday said that they did send that survey out to get input to help them with the next gen model(s).
That seems at odds with what we keep hearing about the C300 being one of the hottest rental cams out there. What do you think needs to be done to the C300 to get it working "in a real professional environment/ecosystem?" Most people I hear from keep saying what the C300 does, it does very well.
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Andrius Simutis
Veteran
I wonder how many of those C300s were brought into service before the release of the C100?
I can see the C100 eating into sales of the C300 for people who really didn't need one, for example wedding shooters. A successful wedding shooter might have been able to afford a C300, but did they really need one over a C100? They're better off buying two C100s. TV guys will still want the C300 over the C100, and most of those guys already bought the C300 before the C100 came out. Not a bad move on Canon's part really as their C300 market was taken care of.
I'm not sure either what it's missing to work "in a real professional environment/ecosystem?" Sure, you could add all sorts of stuff to it, but it still works pretty damn well as it is. It doesn't have to be a 10bit 4k or raw camera to work today.
Jim Martin
DVXuser Sponsor
I've posted many times that Canon has at least 10 people in Japan that are looking everyday at this and other forums. Canon New York has another group looking at these and other forums....every day.
Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
Loki
Veteran
if thats the case.... then...
Canon... c100 firmware update to add 1080p60..... thats all I ask.... or make the c200 something I can't not upgrade too.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I don't want to give the wrong impression that I do not like the C300, because that's not the case. I just think that Canon overlooked/underestimated elements that really need to be there in a camera in the Broadcast/Production world. I'm looking at this from the point-of-view of someone that lives in the network tv world and has used(and continues to use) broadcast ENG cameras for their entire career. There's no denying that the camera produces a beautiful picture and is very versatile, but it still isn't quite "up to snuff". Get rid of HDMI. It's eating up valuable real estate that could be used for more SDI connections. HDMI has no business on a camera that is aimed at this market segment. It needs multiple HD-SDI outputs that can be set-up individually for clean feeds or with overlays/info. It needs separate TC IN and OUT connections. It needs a locking power input connection. The "Pod" is the only way to feed and control the XLR/audio inputs. Bad, bad, bad design. That's probably one of the things that irritates me the most about this camera. No real, dedicated external EVF. You have to rig a third party VF on it and then supply it with external power and use up the lone SDI or HDMI to feed it signal. I'm probably leaving something out, but I'm 15 hours in to the day and fighting a food coma. Lol.
drummondb mentioned feature films. The rep told me those guys aren't biting. Yes, there have been some demo's and show-off pieces done, but it has not been adopted like they had hoped into the "real" movie world. Despite it's shortcomings, the C300 has become a workhorse in the broadcast/network market for features, commercials and specialty shows. I also told the rep that part of the problem is that we are being asked to use the camera in ways that it wasn't really designed/intended for and that's in ENG style shooting scenarios.
The C300 is probably overkill for most wedding and event shooters(which the C100 is serving very well), but it still falls short on the "TV" side, with regards to connections and functionality that we need and are used to. Obviously these shortcomings aren't insurmountable, we have all proven that, but at times they make it harder, slower, less enjoyable and even somewhat limiting to what you can do.
Another little tidbit of info that I was told that we have all probably figured out by now, the EXT 1 & 2 connections that the "POD" connects to for monitor, control and audio. They are proprietary and Canon has them on lock-down, that's why we haven't seen third party extension cables or break-outs, etc. He said they have asked the engineers to open it up and they haven't, yet. They're also still aware of and have yet to come up with a fix for the buzz in the audio created when running a wireless on the camera and powering them both from the same external power source.
drummondb mentioned feature films. The rep told me those guys aren't biting. Yes, there have been some demo's and show-off pieces done, but it has not been adopted like they had hoped into the "real" movie world. Despite it's shortcomings, the C300 has become a workhorse in the broadcast/network market for features, commercials and specialty shows. I also told the rep that part of the problem is that we are being asked to use the camera in ways that it wasn't really designed/intended for and that's in ENG style shooting scenarios.
The C300 is probably overkill for most wedding and event shooters(which the C100 is serving very well), but it still falls short on the "TV" side, with regards to connections and functionality that we need and are used to. Obviously these shortcomings aren't insurmountable, we have all proven that, but at times they make it harder, slower, less enjoyable and even somewhat limiting to what you can do.
Another little tidbit of info that I was told that we have all probably figured out by now, the EXT 1 & 2 connections that the "POD" connects to for monitor, control and audio. They are proprietary and Canon has them on lock-down, that's why we haven't seen third party extension cables or break-outs, etc. He said they have asked the engineers to open it up and they haven't, yet. They're also still aware of and have yet to come up with a fix for the buzz in the audio created when running a wireless on the camera and powering them both from the same external power source.
Curnsie
Well-known member
Canon, exactly!
People like your image quality, form factor and glass but if a gap in specs will be to big they will just jump onto a different train!
Please, don't go Kodak and Nokia path!
I am before my purchase and even before NAB I was worried if C100 will be a good choice. Now I have even more doubts, I am going to Canon Cinema Roadshow tomorrow and will make my final decision: C100 or GH4 (rest of the money for a lot of additional gear) or something else. I want to get a camera that will be quite future proofed and I have a freedom of not owning any glass that could tie me.
You make it really hard Canon, you should be leading this market that you've accidentally created NOT following!
People like your image quality, form factor and glass but if a gap in specs will be to big they will just jump onto a different train!
Please, don't go Kodak and Nokia path!
I am before my purchase and even before NAB I was worried if C100 will be a good choice. Now I have even more doubts, I am going to Canon Cinema Roadshow tomorrow and will make my final decision: C100 or GH4 (rest of the money for a lot of additional gear) or something else. I want to get a camera that will be quite future proofed and I have a freedom of not owning any glass that could tie me.
You make it really hard Canon, you should be leading this market that you've accidentally created NOT following!
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Curnsie
Well-known member
i understand your plight. This time last year when I bought my C100 the only other options for me in my price range were the 5D Mk3 or the Sony FS100 - the FS700 was over a grand more expensive than it is currently. A year later there is a whole different market. I can't say for sure I'd go with Canon now. I'm now looking at either a Gh4 as complimentary camera or a Fs700 as a replacement - unless Canon pull a very special rabbit out of the hat!
lightstrum
Well-known member
Aren't you referring to the C500 in your desires list?
I have to buy a camera within weeks and I have a massive headache of watching thousand of footage videos and comparisons over and over again... C100 image is the one I like the most, and find it a lot more "filmic" (sorry for this overused buzz word...) then anything else. But then I really don't want to buy obsolete camera which C100 slowly looks like. I was thinking about fs700 but it's form factor is terrible and I don't really like image coming out of it. I was hoping for something new in that price range to be released on NAB that would make it easy to pick it up (and have brand new release cam). Same with me - maybe C100 + GH4 as comp. camera, but again....
C'MON CANON! Release something new and many of us will be very happy!!
Curnsie
Well-known member
I hear ya! The Canon image is in my eyes nicer than the Sony's which is why I went for the C100 over the FS100 a year ago... A friend of mine owns an FS700 and the image is 'ok' in my eyes, but the super slo-mo adds another dimension to his work - a dimension that I have to say I'm really missing at the moment!
I pre-ordered a GH4 to act as a complimentary camera with 96fps slo-mo but then cancelled it for 3 main reasons - firstly lens compatibility - I own a boat load of EF lenses that won't work on the GH4 - there's no aperture control - no EF to M43 speedbooster as yet. Secondly, I don't want to return to DSLR land with no built-in NDs and decent sound etc, and thirdly I'm hoping Canon wake up and look at the market, listen to users, and see they are getting left behind! (in my opinion so don't shot me!) I'm really hoping they announce something nice soon that ticks a lot of my boxes.
Semi-rant over...
That may change very quickly. Andrew Reid on eoshd in GH4 review mentioned that something big is coming on 3rd of June, so that might be EF to MFT adapter. We will see. For a moment I was thinking that maybe that Aja Cion? But then realised that media, additional evf, no nd's will make it a lot more expensive and more cumbersome to use then it seemed at first glance.
One camera that is not mentioned very often but can stir things up is JVC GY-LSX2, unfortunately it's release is a little bit to late for me (end of this year).
Oh dear... I will have to decide for something.
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chappelldigital
Well-known member
Definitely glad I went with the C100 (coming up to a year almost now).
I had a few discussions yesterday with a guy who is looking to buy a new camera. FS700 was on the top of his list (and it was on mine as well). Ergonomics and a few others swayed me towards Canon. A month ago that point was proven and I was glad I went with the C100. I shot with a guy on a corporate shoot who had an FS700. His Pelican case for it was at least 4 times the size of my Pelican case (mine is the 1510). This was due to having to rig out the camera for it to be useable. He struggled bringing the case in (plus lights, tripod etc), but I couldn't get over the size of his Pelican case! Whereas yesterday, I showed up to a shoot with two C100's in my Pelican 1510.
THAT is a big deal to me. Ergonomics of shooting, but also how difficult it will make your life getting to the shoot, setting up, packing up, etc etc.
I had a few discussions yesterday with a guy who is looking to buy a new camera. FS700 was on the top of his list (and it was on mine as well). Ergonomics and a few others swayed me towards Canon. A month ago that point was proven and I was glad I went with the C100. I shot with a guy on a corporate shoot who had an FS700. His Pelican case for it was at least 4 times the size of my Pelican case (mine is the 1510). This was due to having to rig out the camera for it to be useable. He struggled bringing the case in (plus lights, tripod etc), but I couldn't get over the size of his Pelican case! Whereas yesterday, I showed up to a shoot with two C100's in my Pelican 1510.
THAT is a big deal to me. Ergonomics of shooting, but also how difficult it will make your life getting to the shoot, setting up, packing up, etc etc.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Not really. The C500 only really has more SDI outputs(besides 4K & higher frame rates). Nothing else is addressed. And at the time I purchased my C300, the C500 was almost the same price as the F55. Now when I bought my C300 last June, if the C500 had been at the price point Canon was selling it for in December/early January(about $15-16k), I would have bought it over the $14K C300. But that camera isn't worth what they want for it now(even at the reduced price of $20k) and I'd say a lot of others agree considering they haven't been able to move them(at least at the old $25k+ price point. I don't know if the reduction has increased interest/purchases).