Camera moves through a window

RyanT said:
I wouldn't force a zoom onto a film for the benefit of one shot. Just from this one shot alone I could tell that a zoom would stick out like a sore thumb next to everything else. I love a good zoom now and then, but only when it's appropriate.
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Postmaster said:
Yeah, a zoom would totally ruin a shot like that - you need real movement.
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kenwilx1016 said:
I agree that a zoom would be completely out of the question. Aside from looking lame, how do you hide the rain drops on the glass?
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THANK YOU!
At least some people understand and not just saying I'm being an amateur not knowing what I'm doing.

I know that I will have to remove the window out. And shoot through the window and then add it in post. I've never done it so, I will have to find someone who is good at it, or just experiment heavily on it.

I'm still questioning about how and why to shoot and combine the 2 shots together with a green screen.
 
Andrew Luczenczyn said:
The oldschool way they used to do this was with a simple crossfade match shot. Citizen cane uses it successfully. The only issue with the oldschool technique is that both passes were done on one track with a removable wall. If you have a window that opens, or can be removed easily it will still work.You do an outside pass, and get the camera to the point where the edges of the window frame meet the outside frame lines. Then do an inside pass, where the lens is as close to the now closed window as possible, and continue the match shot into the room. Crossfade at the point were the glass would appear.If your experienced at match shots, it should work, I've tried similar techniques and it works. If your running the shot through After Effects, I'm sure you can do a digital track and crop the shot to make the two shots beautifully.
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If I were shooting it, I'd test this approach.
 
As much as I support you in that, I really question the whole shot entirely. Why even do it? It seems like the reason you'd like to do it is to make it a "cool" shot, and not because it helps tell the story.

Just playing devils advocate here...Does it fit in with the style of the rest of the film, or work well with something you're trying to do as a whole that I'm missing?
 
DDirector said:
.... I've never done it so, I will have to find someone who is good at it, or just experiment heavily on it.

I'm still questioning about how and why to shoot and combine the 2 shots together with a green screen.
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Forget that green screen. If you would need absolute control over any aspect, you could compose the whole shot in the computer from high res (heck even HDR) photos.
No big deal for any visual fx guy. It is done all the time and they call it camera mapping.
But from what I understand, you want the back yard exactly like it is.

So option one is to do only ONE shot with a removed window and add the window in post.
Option two is to do TWO shots and put them together in post.

If you need help in post, drop me a line.

Frank
 
I remembered something.. The beginning of 'Unknown'

It starts with the clouds and then it looks like the camera goes through the airplane window. I know that was done with CGI, but that seems to be the best method - having the surroundings outside be done in CGI.
I've also seen it done in a short films but all using a CGI background. But they were all small windows, but this one will be a large one. That's the problem
 
I agree, the zooming could be a last resort sort of thing, but it does not give the same effect as dollying. What about just having the camera pull back through a half open window with billowing sheets..like someone left the window half open not intending for it to rain...could be even more powerful a scene.
 
As much as I like doing everything I can in camera, I would send this to post exclusively. This is a pretty simple scene that could be created in (3DStudioMax/Cinema4D/Blender/____). In all honesty, it could be done in about 100 simple layers in After Effects, really, using actual video of the location as your back plate. Then you can add rain / snow / tornadoes all you want and you'll have full control over them.
 
As Postmaster says, camera mapping / projection is a very common vfx technique. However, for what you are doing, you really need to assess the environment you are trying to create. Camera projection works great for things like buildings, but not as well if you need trees blowing in the wind as the stills used to recreate your environment will still feel static even witj the camera move. I would be tempted to shoot 2 seperate moving shots and use projection techniques to hide the join, although you will find a program like The Foundry's Nuke will give you much finer control in a shot like this.
Hope it helps!
N
 
I would hybrid the two ideas of shooting and going post.

I would shoot the exterior in as large a format as i can afford. I would dolly to the end of the track, presumably, where the "window" is and keep rolling for several seconds.

i would then take a 16 MP still of the interior, with the panes of glass cut out simply in photoshop. I would then composite this paneless window in AE and add a camera that dollies out at the stopping point of the outside track.

I would shoot glass (or hell, even just lexan from Home Depot) being sprinkled with "raindrops" against straight black and luma key that glass shot, placed between the still of the interior and the video exterior.

Then I'd cut away to the first shot with actors in it as quickly as possible. =) Just a suggestion.
 
Well, its a dolly from outside, through window (revealing rain) continue dollying back into room, then jib down revealing 'something' on the ground.
 
DDirector said:
Well, its a dolly from outside, through window (revealing rain) continue dollying back into room, then jib down revealing 'something' on the ground.
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Gotcha. You're right, that's tough.

Frankly I don't see you getting around this without going hilt-deep into Cinema 4D, Maya, or at least Blender and doing at least your interior dolly/tilt in a 3D environment.

I guess I'd need to hear more of the synopsis to understand the importance of this shot to telling your story. It seems to me like you should try to focus on accomplishing something difficult and impressive rather than nigh-to-impossible. You may wind up blowing a huge chunk of your budget "washing it away with the money-hose" as Robert Rodriguez says.

If it were me, I'd back that dolly right up to the window and then jump the line (you heard me... I'm a rebel, playa, don't f- wit dis...) and dolly into the house (actually a dolly taken from inside the house and composited with a still of the exterior as I described before) going forward. Then do your tilt. Though, honestly, I'm not a fan of tilts to begin with. I think they're as tacky as zooms.

Like I said, whatever it takes to tell your story.
 
Jib on dolly work for this?

Jib on dolly work for this?

What about:

Shot 1 - Camera on a hothead jib (like a Jimmy Jib), that is on dolly track. Window is removed and camera is sticking out the window, rain cover on. You shoot the exterior wideshot, then the camera dollies back on the jib through the window. As it crosses the window, lightening flashes outside (giving you a compositing frame?).

Shot 2 - Camera in room, on jib, clear plexi in the place of the glass, camera starts up against glass, and dollies back. This shot for transition from exterior lighting and rain to interior shot. W/O plexi, rain is blowing into room and getting window wet. Camera may need to have a black foamcore around it to cover reflection, eventhough this shot only lasts a half second.

Shot 3 - Same as shot 2, but with real window so you can show interior lighting and shoot establishing of interior. Probably have to shorten jib between shots 2 and 3.

Would that work?
 
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