Camera moves through a window

D

DDirector

Veteran
I wanted to know if its possible for me to do a shot like this:

The camera starts off outside in a rain storm. It slowly dollys back in a straight line. It passes through the glass of the front window of a house. Then you can see the water running down the window, which wasnt visible before since the camera was outside. It continues slowly backing up and then I have my interior establishing shot.

How can this be pulled off?

I saw a tutorial once on Video Copilot doing this with a car window. But, this is a house, and its raining, so its not as easy as rolling down your window.

The window will be the type that is in an outwards U shape. Just like the picture below.

window.jpg

Can I pull this off with simple camera equipment?

This is one of my most important shots and most complicated one I need to pull off. So, might as well go with a fancy complicated cool shot, then just something simple.​


Another thing is, I want the camera to dolly back several feet from the window. The floor will be seen. How will I go abouts to cover up the dolly tracks? -- Should I have it on a jib arm extended far out so I dont have the track so far up to the window, so when dollyed back it wont be seen?
 
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This will not be cheap or easy.

Most similar shots I've seen would use some sort of technocrane for the dolly (to avoid showing the tracks) - a jib arm might work, worth a test, but it would need to be perfectly steady and balanced. Easy enough for you to test.

The glass and rain would best be added in post, either CGI or composite. Especially if you can have drawn curtains covering the two side windows, then you won't have problems matching the rain on the side and main windows.

Consider having the entire outside added as a composite in post, i.e. you shoot the dolly shot with just green outside, and seperately shot a matching exterior dolly shot of a storm, mix them in post.

Do you really need the rain running down the glass? Sure it's cute, but a lot of extra work, and not actually realistic unless the wind is heading straight at camera.
 
Yes, I was thinking about the technocrane, but then I thought that a simple jib might work too. Its just that getting a technocrane inside a house seems to be a problem.

Why would I have to green screen it? I dont understand why I would need to.
I wanted the neighbourhood to be full of rain. Unless if the exterior of the house isnt that great, and want a different location for it, then I understand. But, why green screen it?
 
The oldschool way they used to do this was with a simple crossfade match shot. Citizen cane uses it successfully. The only issue with the oldschool technique is that both passes were done on one track with a removable wall. If you have a window that opens, or can be removed easily it will still work.

You do an outside pass, and get the camera to the point where the edges of the window frame meet the outside frame lines. Then do an inside pass, where the lens is as close to the now closed window as possible, and continue the match shot into the room. Crossfade at the point were the glass would appear.

If your experienced at match shots, it should work, I've tried similar techniques and it works. If your running the shot through After Effects, I'm sure you can do a digital track and crop the shot to make the two shots beautifully.
 
No idea if it would work but maybe if you filmed the whole thing from inside the house. If you used zoom and started right up against the window with all the lights off inside and some kind of rainshield above the window on the outside to keep the rain off the window. Source your sound from a microphone on the outside (70% of what you see is sound) and maybe it would seem like you were actually outside. As you pull back and the window comes into view flick some lights on to make a reflection in the glass (but at an angle that doesn't reveal the camera obviously) and simultaneously remove the rainshield outside so rain appears on the glass. Switch to sourcing sound from the interior.

Just a thought. Cheap if it works...
 
The reason to greenscreen is that you can then treat the exterior rain shot and the interior shot as completely separate. Moving "through" the glass becomes a non-issue as the interior shot only starts when the camera is genuinely inside the house and the window frame first appears on edge of camera frame. The other advantage is lighting levels - I suspect you'll need to fiddle the lighting levels mid-shot anyway, presuming the exterior is dark and the interior is more brightly lit, so that the audience can see what they need to see right throughout the whole shot, and that fiddling will be easier if the interior and exterior are actually separate, or there may be points during the transition where the exterior is suddenly too dark compared to the interior.

But greenscreening is no magic bullet - if your dollying in both interior and exterior shots don't match, it will probably look odd. And greenscreening can introduce a whole pile of new lighting problems of its own. Frankly i wouldn't recommend greenscreen unless you and your crew have some previous experience.
 
I understand about the green screen thing. But, is it actually going to be that hard to light the BG and the interior evenly?
Ive never greenscreened anything like this before. It would be a great thing to learn, but maybe not so soon.

There could be a street lamp outside (Which I believe I do want to have in the shot) so, it can light up a majority of the houses/street. And every so often lightening would light up the houses/street even more.

The interior will be dark too, but not too dark that you cant see much. There will be a single light source coming from a small lamp on a night stand. Its a few feet behind the window, so I plan on using that as my key interior light. And perhaps (depending on the actual location) the kitchen will be lit a little bit and where the stairs are, giving a little bit more light in the shot*.

*The lights in the kitchen & where the stairs on will most likely not do much in the through-window shot, but its just to let you know that the light within these areas will light the main room a bit more than just a single lamp. So, its not pitch black inside.
Room Layout.jpg


I like the other ideas, but it seems that having to do an exterior shot & an interior shot and then put put them together in post might be hard. If I end up doing it all with an extended jib arm, it may not look perfect. I think it would be better to do one continuous shot.
 
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DDirector said:
I wanted to know if its possible for me to do a shot like this:

The camera starts off outside in a rain storm. It slowly dollys back in a straight line. It passes through the glass of the front window of a house. Then you can see the water running down the window, which wasnt visible before since the camera was outside. It continues slowly backing up and then I have my interior establishing shot.

How can this be pulled off?

I saw a tutorial once on Video Copilot doing this with a car window. But, this is a house, and its raining, so its not as easy as rolling down your window.

The window will be the type that is in an outwards U shape. Just like the picture below.

View attachment 45353

Can I pull this off with simple camera equipment?

This is one of my most important shots and most complicated one I need to pull off. So, might as well go with a fancy complicated cool shot, then just something simple.​




Another thing is, I want the camera to dolly back several feet from the window. The floor will be seen. How will I go abouts to cover up the dolly tracks? -- Should I have it on a jib arm extended far out so I dont have the track so far up to the window, so when dollyed back it wont be seen?
Click to expand...

Is it just dumb to think you could do this with a two Shot from a stationary camera position? Both being zooms. First zoomed out to well beyond the Window's ledge and zooms back into the room? next zooms into the framing you'd like to have?

The other way that comes to mind is doing this working in 3D space/Z-axis in post.
 
tom_wise said:
Is it just dumb to think you could do this with a two Shot from a stationary camera position? Both being zooms. First zoomed out to well beyond the Window's ledge and zooms back into the room? next zooms into the framing you'd like to have?

The other way that comes to mind is doing this working in 3D space/Z-axis in post.
Click to expand...
Zooming and dollying back are tow different things.
This is not the best method
 
DDirector said:
Zooming and dollying back are tow different things.
This is not the best method
Click to expand...

Yes. I understand that they are.


DDirector said:
Not if you don't have a zoom lens.

I dont want to use this zooming method anyways.
Click to expand...

If I read your posts correctly you want to do this all in one shot starting outside in the rain and then come back through a 'closed' window so we can see rain on the glass. That cannot be done in one shot, unless you know of some self healing glass out there somewhere. If not for the closed window glass, it could be done in one shot. Unless of course, you do not mind having the window opening in the shot. And I cannot imagine not using a zoom (even a slight one...35-70mm) on this simply because of the FOV of whatever lens you Choose beginning outside then accommodating a room view inside.

You say you want to dolly this, but then you mention the worry over seeing the tracks in the inside shot of the room. I am not a big proponent of setting myself up for extra work to be done in post, even though that is something I am actually very good at ( AE). But If I were going to do this and was worried over the tracks and it was a linear track/dolly shot coming back into the room, then I'd have to clone/roto and work to : Cover my tracks.
 
I don't understand... You say earlier you were considering using a Technocrane, but a zoom is out of the question because you don't have one... Seriously? Since you are the only one on this forum that has access to the actual room to be used in the shot, it would make the most sense for you to do your own testing with the gear you do have access to and find a solution that is acceptable to you, as you have already discounted those that have taken their time to help you.

Good luck with your shoot!

Dave
 
No, I mean that using a zoom is giving it a different look. I do have a zoom, but its not good for zooming and recording.
Sure, I CAN rent a good zoom lens, but the method of zooming gives a totally different look than dollying. Your eyes cant zoom in/out, you can only move towards and away, so why should I do that? -- Its a personal thing. I don't like zooming while shooting motion pictures.

The window will most likely not be there. If the camera starts off outside and moves inside, the window will most likely (Obviously) will not be there. It will probably have to be done in Post.

As for the tracks, they will have to be moved back as they cannot be seen. It will be a medium-slow dolly back so whatever needs to be done, they will have to be not seen. The main focus will be outside and then to whatever is inside the room on the floor. So, if I need to use a technocrane, I will. Or if I can put the camera on a jib and extend the arm forward, I will.
It will be a dolly back, and then the camera will move down. So, in any case, it will be on a jib arm any ways.
 
DDirector said:
No, I mean that using a zoom is giving it a different look. I do have a zoom, but its not good for zooming and recording.
Sure, I CAN rent a good zoom lens, but the method of zooming gives a totally different look than dollying. Your eyes cant zoom in/out, you can only move towards and away, so why should I do that? -- Its a personal thing. I don't like zooming while shooting motion pictures.
Click to expand...

Yes a zoom and a dolly are different, by the way, have any idea how big the smallest Scorpio crane is? Hope you have a big room. Your eyes and a motion picture lens are two different things which act differently.
The purpose of selecting different lenses is to tell your story, not emulate the human eye which it can't do faithfully.
Want some free advice... Forget about how the eye sees, and concentrate on telling the story.

Why is it that film students and beginner indie film folks always seen to have a problem with using a zoom as a tool when needed to pull of a shot?
 
David W. Jones said:
Why is it that film students and beginner indie film folks always seen to have a problem with using a zoom as a tool when needed to pull of a shot?
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Why is it that those who have been doing this for a long time assume that those that haven't know nothing and just can bad mouth about them?

And, the crane will fit inside a room. The smallest one I can rent locally isnt that big
 
I wouldn't force a zoom onto a film for the benefit of one shot. Just from this one shot alone I could tell that a zoom would stick out like a sore thumb next to everything else. I love a good zoom now and then, but only when it's appropriate.

What might not be a bad idea though is using a zoom that's hidden within your dolly move. Sometimes you just don't have enough room to complete the move...if you dolly back while slowly zooming out you can increase the size of the move and get the shot you're after without it being at all noticeable. If you're having problems seeing the track or pulling back out wide enough, this could be a good solution.

Just talk to a good effects guy, don't worry about how you're going to do the shot in regards to going through the glass, but only how you'll accomplish what you're looking for (Going from a wide shot outside to this two shot inside.) I think you're right on with arming the camera out and doing the slow dolly back. The only thing I might ask is if the ground is smooth enough to roll on without track. That could solve a lot of your problems.

Also, you won't be using a technocrane for this shot. Trust me on this one.
 
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@RyanT
Yeah, I realized just now that if I have a floor that's smooth, which it should be a smooth hard floor, I can use a dolly on those large rubber wheels instead of a track. (Hopefully)

Thanks
 
Yeah, a zoom would totally ruin a shot like that - you need real movement.
A small crane/jib like the Kessler pocket jib should do the trick.
Do a two shot and match it in post - should be quite easy, the rest is sound.

If you have a floor problem, you can use skateboard wheels on rubber tracks, that two assistants can pull away before they come into the frame.
If you have room for a larger crane, it may be possible to skip the dolly thing and do the whole move with the crane sideways.

If you need help with the post, drop me a line.

my ct2

Frank
 
I agree that a zoom would be completely out of the question. Aside from looking lame, how do you hide the rain drops on the glass? To Say that it is because of a lack of experience that this guy doesn't want to use a Zoom on this shot is funny. Because if I were to watch a film where the DP used a zoom to accomplish this shot, I would critique it and think, this dude doesn't know what he's doing. Haha
 
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