C500: C500 + Zeiss Master Prime for Wedding

Matt Turner said:
If you are just getting into weddings you could check out this podcast I found out about this week, I think they use FS7s and A7s, maybe C100, I haven't gotten to Week 19 yet :-)
http://ourweekinvideo.podbean.com/
http://ourweekinvideo.podbean.com/e/week-19-we-finally-upgraded-our-cameras-find-out-what-we-chose/
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Listening to the second half of Week 19 they've identified many aspects that are lacking in my videos.
Very challenging. Will do much better next wedding.
 
Andy Young said:
It might be worth hiring actors as well. Then you don't have to worry about a nervous groom or drunk bridesmaid flubbing their lines and ruining the story.
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The problem is actors flub their lines and ruin stories with bad acting as well. Best to do 100% CGI with synthesized dialog to maintain complete control over the wedding video.
 
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Matt Turner said:
I listened too, they went with:

Sony FS7
Canon C100 MKII

Much cheaper and easier to use than cinema cameras and master primes.
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Yep, they also say you can identify when a photographer becomes a videographer (which is what I am).
The footage is often too static, not dynamic. I have ordered the Moza Lite and I'll look at other ways we could get more movement into shots (I'm considering the Edelkrone slider, I have regular sliders but they are too cumbersome).
 
I know i've come into this convo late but, are you kidding me? Are we really discussing weddings, Arri cameras, Cooke primes, and c500's in the same discussion??? I have been shooting wedding for 5 years in very active markets (Atlanta, Miami) Most have been on the mid to high end in the last 2. I have had the pleasure of working along side Ray Roman, and some great wedding filmmakers, and I can tell you that nobody, I mean, nobody is using that kind of firepower at weddings. Ray charges up to 10k for his work, and he uses a 1dc for as his main camera, ef glass, and a ronin here and there but that's it. Kid you are going to go bankrupt really fast. Most wedding clients could not tell a difference between your amira, and an iphone. TRUST ME. All they care about is a great wedding story, and sharing it with their friends and family on Facebook. I dont mean to bust your balls are anything but this thread just sounds like a cry for attention.
 
Hey, here's a question for ya, what is your workflow for your media on wedding day?
One more thing, You went all Michael Bay on the camera and glass for those weddings you posted, but decided on a $20 budget for sound? The vows in the second video sound like scratch audio at best.
Oh wait, you probably spent that extra cash on a doorway dolly, and a technocrane. I get it. All about the quality right?

I'm sorry, as a wedding filmmaker, I have no respect for this post.
 
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He's asking for audio tools in another thread, think he realizes that good audio at that key moment is important. Certainly not a place to hang a pole and shotgun in front of all the audience. So if you have input on wireless systems, check out his thread down in the audio section, I'm recommending G3 systems, but Lectrosonic would be even better.

And holy cr@p, my spell check/auto complete knows Lectrosonic!
 
Rayden said:
I know i've come into this convo late but, are you kidding me? Are we really discussing weddings, Arri cameras, Cooke primes, and c500's in the same discussion??? I have been shooting wedding for 5 years in very active markets (Atlanta, Miami) Most have been on the mid to high end in the last 2. I have had the pleasure of working along side Ray Roman, and some great wedding filmmakers, and I can tell you that nobody, I mean, nobody is using that kind of firepower at weddings. Ray charges up to 10k for his work, and he uses a 1dc for as his main camera, ef glass, and a ronin here and there but that's it. Kid you are going to go bankrupt really fast. Most wedding clients could not tell a difference between your amira, and an iphone. TRUST ME. All they care about is a great wedding story, and sharing it with their friends and family on Facebook.
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I've already acknowledged that the Amira was a poor choice.
The only reason the C500 was discussed and in the OP was because it is relatively cheap to rent over here and I need a camera that excels at low light.
Based on the advice that I HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED I am looking into the Canon C100 mkII.
 
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Rayden said:
Hey, here's a question for ya, what is your workflow for your media on wedding day?
One more thing, You're tell me you went all Michael Bay on the camera and glass for those weddings you posted, but decided on a $20 budget for sound? The vows in the second video sound like scratch audio at best.
Oh wait, you probably spent that extra cash on a doorway dolly, and a technocrane. I get it. All about the quality right?

I'm sorry, as a wedding filmmaker, I have no respect for this post.
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Okay for that wedding I had the following audio setup:
1. NTG3 shotgun mic on Sony FS7 pointed at bride.
2. Videomic Pro X on GH4 for ambient.
3. Roland R-26 connected to officiant's PA.
4. Olympus recorder with lapel in groom's and officiant's pockets.

As so often happens, there were complications.
While the Rode NTG3 and Videomic recorded well neither were particularly useful for the vows.
The officiant's PA gave us a signal that was way too hot. We tried using an XLR balancer but it just completely cut the audio out altogether.
The Olympus recorder is meant as a back-up but because the other methods were insufficient we had to use it.
It is particularly poor with the bride.
We should have put a double mic on the groom but my audio tech didn't get around to it because he had been trying to balance the PA gear.
We are looking into a wireless system as a further recording method.
We've only had audio in three weddings, we are going to make mistakes at this point.
 
Hey spinkscapes,

Thanks for so openly sharing your dreams, setups and progress with your wedding videography work (and so graciously handling some of the replies you've received after being so open!).

I've been filming weddings in the UK for nearly 4 years and it's been an interesting read. I would largely agree with the feedback you've received already regarding cameras, lenses and audio etc. I think the most important thing is keep your gear simple, effective and get to really know it over a period of time so using it is like second nature and you can really make it sing. I still question the best set of lenses to take to each wedding (zooms versus primes is something I continually debate) but one thing I know is I usually get my best shots when choices are taken away from me and I am focussed on the art and connected to the emotion of the day. I have missed beautiful moments unnecessarily changing lenses during the morning prep for example.

I would also agree that audio is almost more important than the visual. During the pre-wedding meeting I always check the groom is happy to be mic'd up (sennheiser wireless) during the ceremony and speeches and I always try and attend church rehearsals too so I can get to know immediate family and friends beforehand so they are comfortable with me and most importantly The Dreaded Vicar, who will sometimes not be dreaded at all, but when they are you can schmooze them and warm then up to the idea of wearing a little lapel mic too (giant squid audio is great for price, although I'd go sanken or countryman if I had your budget) and pocket recorder (Olympus) then you've got that backup. Same with officiants/registrars, although you'll need to say hello to them on the day of the wedding. I also highly recommend individually micing each speaker during the speeches, or if you are taking a feed of a PA system maybe have a backup on the table (or get your second shooter to set their angle and then monitor it realtime for the first few minutes to check levels).

I film about 80% of weddings solo (no second shooter, no sound guy, no gaffer (ha! are you guys serious!? This is a wedding, not a film set!! You're not creating emotion, the emotion is already there dying for you to capture it!!)) and I'm slowly but surely getting my product to where I want it to be. I never use lights, and probably never will, even when I'm at the top. I think even the top guys like Joe Simon barely use them either. Your time and your second shooter's time is better spent capturing the day, and the Bride & Groom would rather you capture their nephews and nieces chasing bubbles in the garden than making the lighting for the speeches better. Lighting can be ugly at some venues, but that's where you learn how to white balance effectively and work with it as best you can.

For what it's worth, my main camera and lens is a GH4 + Olympus 12-40mm. The size and quality is unparalleled. It means I can stay unobtrusive and avoid affecting what I am capturing. I switch to a Voigtlander 25mm for lowlight, and a Nikon 50mm for portraits. When my 2nd shooter joins me she pretty much shoots on GH2 + Voigtlander 25mm + Monopod + Rode for 80% of the day. She delivers some great stuff, and she's always on point for those special moments.

Anyway, I didn't mean to go on so much, I mainly just wanted to say good luck! You'll make lots of mistakes, but mistakes are awesome for learning, and wedding videographers learn a multitude of skills, fast. As you know we work in a fluid, varied environment involving lots of people for 12 hours solid. It's lower-than-average paid work with insane amounts of editing, but it sure is beautiful!

James

P.S. Jealous you've got to shoot on amira + cookes already! One day, but maybe not for weddings ;-)
 
James Fisher said:
Hey spinkscapes,

Thanks for so openly sharing your dreams, setups and progress with your wedding videography work (and so graciously handling some of the replies you've received after being so open!).

I've been filming weddings in the UK for nearly 4 years and it's been an interesting read. I would largely agree with the feedback you've received already regarding cameras, lenses and audio etc. I think the most important thing is keep your gear simple, effective and get to really know it over a period of time so using it is like second nature and you can really make it sing. I still question the best set of lenses to take to each wedding (zooms versus primes is something I continually debate) but one thing I know is I usually get my best shots when choices are taken away from me and I am focussed on the art and connected to the emotion of the day. I have missed beautiful moments unnecessarily changing lenses during the morning prep for example.

I would also agree that audio is almost more important than the visual. During the pre-wedding meeting I always check the groom is happy to be mic'd up (sennheiser wireless) during the ceremony and speeches and I always try and attend church rehearsals too so I can get to know immediate family and friends beforehand so they are comfortable with me and most importantly The Dreaded Vicar, who will sometimes not be dreaded at all, but when they are you can schmooze them and warm then up to the idea of wearing a little lapel mic too (giant squid audio is great for price, although I'd go sanken or countryman if I had your budget) and pocket recorder (Olympus) then you've got that backup. Same with officiants/registrars, although you'll need to say hello to them on the day of the wedding. I also highly recommend individually micing each speaker during the speeches, or if you are taking a feed of a PA system maybe have a backup on the table (or get your second shooter to set their angle and then monitor it realtime for the first few minutes to check levels).

I film about 80% of weddings solo (no second shooter, no sound guy, no gaffer (ha! are you guys serious!? This is a wedding, not a film set!! You're not creating emotion, the emotion is already there dying for you to capture it!!)) and I'm slowly but surely getting my product to where I want it to be. I never use lights, and probably never will, even when I'm at the top. I think even the top guys like Joe Simon barely use them either. Your time and your second shooter's time is better spent capturing the day, and the Bride & Groom would rather you capture their nephews and nieces chasing bubbles in the garden than making the lighting for the speeches better. Lighting can be ugly at some venues, but that's where you learn how to white balance effectively and work with it as best you can.

For what it's worth, my main camera and lens is a GH4 + Olympus 12-40mm. The size and quality is unparalleled. It means I can stay unobtrusive and avoid affecting what I am capturing. I switch to a Voigtlander 25mm for lowlight, and a Nikon 50mm for portraits. When my 2nd shooter joins me she pretty much shoots on GH2 + Voigtlander 25mm + Monopod + Rode for 80% of the day. She delivers some great stuff, and she's always on point for those special moments.

Anyway, I didn't mean to go on so much, I mainly just wanted to say good luck! You'll make lots of mistakes, but mistakes are awesome for learning, and wedding videographers learn a multitude of skills, fast. As you know we work in a fluid, varied environment involving lots of people for 12 hours solid. It's lower-than-average paid work with insane amounts of editing, but it sure is beautiful!

James

P.S. Jealous you've got to shoot on amira + cookes already! One day, but maybe not for weddings ;-)
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Thanks mate. Appreciate the comments. So much to learn.
My secondary camera is the GH4 + Olympus 40-150mm. Phenomenal combo.
 
Has anyone mentioned the Sony A7S (unmatched low light capability) or Samsung NX1 for autofocus for video that supposedly works? The A7RII (or whatever the next model is) with it's 5 axis stabilization and better autofocus looks interesting.

Just came off a movie shoot- had a fully kitted (and I mean, fully kitted) Alexa XT shooting ArriRAW on my shoulder the whole time. Don't think you want to go in that direction- each camera body has two AC's and DIT plus we had a camera intern- small Tier 1 (union) feature.

As much of a gear hound I can be my current philosophy is: If it doesn't make money I don't want to own it. I had a kitted C500 and it didn't really make money so I no longer have it. No producer was willing to shoot RAW with that camera.

I don't shoot weddings- mostly dramas. But as someone said- the emotions are overflowing at a wedding- you need to effectively capture and portray it in your videos. That said, if I were to start shooting weddings what would I choose?

Camera- my instinct would be to go with the A7S but would test other systems.
One would be the Samsung NX1 for several reasons- 1) autofocus 2) nice skin tones with minimal grading. If you shoot in wide DR mode I believe people are adjusting contrast and saturation and that's about it. The camera doesn't have great dynamic range, but the roll off (clipping point on whites) is reasonable- better than many DSLRs. The two premium Samsung zooms would be the primary lenses I'd carry- then maybe a macro.
Downside- limited lens choices if using native NX mount. Camera records to H265, which then needs to be converted to H264 or Prores/ DNxHD.
Upside- up to 120 fps in 720P. Reported almost no rolling shutter in 720P mode. H265 files are incredibly small- so less card swaps on the day.
A7S- unrivaled low light of any camera. Reported rolling shutter at 720P is manageable, plus up to 120 fps(?) for slow motion. Very high dynamic range. However, frankly I haven't seen great skin tones out of a7S if shooting in s-log. Also you will have to grade the footage if shooting S-log.

I've seen plenty of wedding photographers with multiple bodies, and if i were shooting a wedding I'd have multiple bodies. If I needed a gimbal, I'd setup a body semi permanently on a gimbal- balanced and ready to go at any time. I'd have one body unmanned, getting a nice wide shot that I could always cut away to if needed. If permitted maybe I'd set that behind the altar- to give a perspective guests at the wedding would not have.

and a bunch of good wireless mics. There are new high frequency auto switching systems out by Sennheiser, Audio Technica and Rode. I'd research and see what works best in your area.

For cost reasons I'd go DSLR- multiple bodies, lots of needed accessories, and a good post system to crank out the work.

Test, shoot, simplify for a hard working kit that gets the footage you need. And work the gear to death, because at the end of the day as long as the gear works, it doesn't really matter- most everything is really pretty good these days.
 
klk said:
Has anyone mentioned the Sony A7S (unmatched low light capability) or Samsung NX1 for autofocus for video that supposedly works? The A7RII (or whatever the next model is) with it's 5 axis stabilization and better autofocus looks interesting...
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NX1 can hunt in 4K now and again too.
 
klk said:
One would be the Samsung NX1 for several reasons- 1) autofocus 2) nice skin tones with minimal grading. If you shoot in wide DR mode I believe people are adjusting contrast and saturation and that's about it. The camera doesn't have great dynamic range, but the roll off (clipping point on whites) is reasonable- better than many DSLRs. The two premium Samsung zooms would be the primary lenses I'd carry- then maybe a macro.
Downside- limited lens choices if using native NX mount. Camera records to H265, which then needs to be converted to H264 or Prores/ DNxHD.
Upside- up to 120 fps in 720P. Reported almost no rolling shutter in 720P mode. H265 files are incredibly small- so less card swaps on the day.
A7S- unrivaled low light of any camera. Reported rolling shutter at 720P is manageable, plus up to 120 fps(?) for slow motion. Very high dynamic range. However, frankly I haven't seen great skin tones out of a7S if shooting in s-log. Also you will have to grade the footage if shooting S-log.
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I bought a 2nd hand Samsung NX1 with 16-50mm f⁄2-2.8 S ED OIS Lens today for AU$2500.
After watching footage from the camera I was sold.
Very often when you are researching cameras you see a myriad of poor footage and good footage.
However, the Samsung footage just looks incredible.
Particularly these three videos:
 
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