C500: C500 Raw to prores

I genuinely want to know why he would shoot the entire film on the C500, and only use the Epic on a few shots/scenes as a B cam? And not vice-versa?
 
Most of the shots in the film probably fit the C500 (warm, saturated, and rich colors) more than the Epic, which at least in the trailer here shows up in only a few instances that require a more neutral or cooler palette. Otherwise, you really end up fighting the camera or trying to use it against its best qualities.

Just look at all those beautiful golden C500 shots in the opening (especially the tracking shot towards the desk at 00:15) right up until the first Epic shot at 00:19, and the C500 shots from 00:27-00:56. It would be very difficult to get that look exactly right on the Epic. As Hurlbut would say in his camera tests, the C500 is able to "energize" colors and capture color depth in way that is unlike most other digital cinema cameras.

It also doesn't hurt that the C500 can do very usable high ISOs and can shoot in whatever kind of light you need, including practicals and natural light indoors. Like all RED cameras, the Epic needs a lighting/grip truck as an essential accessory.
 
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Sorry Kinok, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the C500, Red Epic MX, and Fathers and Daughters, color reasoning. I believe it was Shane Hurlbut, painting the scenes those colors and not just the C500 being chosen for those orange golden skin tones, and the Epic for the neutral skin tones. he is manipulating the sensor, messing with color temperatures, and lighting temperatures, (not to mention post CC) take a look at these tests, and video that show that skin tone correctly and beautifully exposed on the C500. The camera has an amazing color palette, you just have to know how to use it.

First up check Transparent with a variety of warm, and cool skin tones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3Q2W0I2Xc

Here is Geoff Boyle's, Graces Story. Lovely normal skin tones.
https://vimeo.com/70715892

And lastly Band Pro's, Off Rushing Nowhere.
https://vimeo.com/98379778

Here are some test's under and over, RAW of the C500, tungsten and daylight.
http://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/C500-uwe-2015.html

I would never have bought the Canon C500 if I thought it would limit how I painted with it! The fan noise however was a shocker :)
 
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B.Berry, as I mentioned, I think it was an aesthetic choice to use the C500 in that particular way and it is easily white balanced and graded in a different and more neutral way. Having said that, the camera responds very well to color grading aimed at a more saturated look, as in the example of Of Rushing Nowhere you cited above where the skin tones are neutral and where there is no hint of the "golden" tones but still a more punchy look (with emphasis on the blue and red tones) than you would get from other camera manufacturers. Hurlbut mentioned that he likes the C500 because it grades very easily and color is brought back with little effort in dealing with the C-Log files in post. According to Hurlbut, Fathers and Daughters was CC'd in 4-5 days because the C500 footage was so easy to grade.
 
Just going back to your posting where you felt the trailer was C500, then the Epic, I don't know which shots were the Epic, or the C500, i'm just feeling the C500 was the main camera and could have been used for any of the scenes in Fathers and Daughters trailer, neutral or warm? I would use either of these cameras for for a feature. I mainly got the C500 for ease of use as most of my work Is with a sound man and myself, it is so nice to have the money for the grip, gaffer, and truck with all the goodies, what a difference those extra hands and tools make.
 
I wonder if CD is going to show a new update for O7Q+ for C500 cams and its slow motion to Pro Res option? From what i understand the feature C700 will have same kind of raw output as c500 has.... so its maybe more reasons for CD to make it ....
 
CD, are very good about updating and offering continued support for older cameras, look at what they did for the old Sony F35! That was above and beyond expectations.
 
Please don't get your hopes up too high. At this stage we have to make decisions based on return. How many more sales will we get relative to how many more man hours must we put in to get them? The F35 had no one serving it and it was literally two day's of work to adapt the work we'd already done to make it work for that camera. We knew we had a built in audience of clients who would buy the 7Q+ for this feature. Just enough to make it worth doing. Most choices are not that straightforward.
 
What if we can get a commitment of 20 people here to buy a 7Q+ for at least an attempt from CD to get short bursts of 4K/60p ProRes out of the C500?

It's worth a try. :laugh:
 
Well Mitch, makes it sound like CD have given up on the now old and doomed C500. They used to promote their product with the Canon C500 RAW option. I remember a handful of DVX members ( owners of old F35 cameras) that cheered on as CD gave them a little more for their once $250,000 camera now able to be picked up as low as $4,000. Shurely Canon, helped CD more with their C500, than the Sony F35, helped CD sell their recorders?
 
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B.Berry said:
Well Mitch, makes it sound like CD have given up on the now old and doomed C500. They used to promote their product with the Canon C500 RAW option.
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That's not really fair to say. CD supported C500 RAW, HFR up to 120p, and the 2K RGB mode when almost no one else did and still offers the best support for the camera. In fact, they have added new C500 features to the Odyssey every year. I very much appreciate what they continue to do for this five-year-old camera!

4K ProRes at 60p and 120p would be a whole other matter, however, since it would be processor intensive and involve a significant level of programming. Aside from the development cost, I imagine there is a very good technical reason why the Odyssey does not offer it.
 
I wonder if Canon has any say on what the 7Q+ is able to offer...and I wonder if they would simply say no to 4K/60p ProRes.
 
It just sounded from Mitch's post, don't hold your breath for future ProRes options for the C500. It struck a cord with me because CD were so helpful with F35/ Odyssey owners with updates after they purchased Odyssey recorders, and from how Mitch responded to the proRes question from Anutusa, " Please don't get your hopes too high" This made me feel like why did I just praise CD on their continued updates and support of older cameras? Mitch's response made the C500 hopes sound not so good. I'll just be happy with what I have in the C500 and the Odyssey I just bought :)
 
I'm not saying that we are not going to do it or that the C500 isn't of value to us. What I am saying is that it is not an equivalent comparison between expanding C500 support and our adding F35 support. The F35 support was a minimal amount of effort -- we already recorded HD 4:4:4 and just needed to adapt to the unique way the F35 carried that signal. The features for C500 that we do not currently offer would require a significant amount of time to develop. They are far more complicated. So it is not something that I can call up the engineers on Monday and say, "Hey guys, can you set aside some time next week and make this happen?" That's what I did for the F35, but additional C500 support is far more time consuming so far more complicated to take on.

To someone else's point, Canon does not restrict us in what support we offer.
 
Maybe it's for the best...I can't imagine the possible butterfly effect that would result from 4K/60p in the C500...lots of angry C300 Mark II owners, a change in potential C700 sales, a rebirth in independent filmmaking on DVXuser...it's too much for CD to be responsible for. :shocked:
 
Who knows, maybe one morning there will be an announcement: Convergent Design has cracked the 4K 60p ProRes conversion, now available for the Odyssey 7Q+. We can but dream :)
 
Mitch Gross said:
I'm not saying that we are not going to do it or that the C500 isn't of value to us. What I am saying is that it is not an equivalent comparison between expanding C500 support and our adding F35 support. The F35 support was a minimal amount of effort -- we already recorded HD 4:4:4 and just needed to adapt to the unique way the F35 carried that signal. The features for C500 that we do not currently offer would require a significant amount of time to develop. They are far more complicated. So it is not something that I can call up the engineers on Monday and say, "Hey guys, can you set aside some time next week and make this happen?" That's what I did for the F35, but additional C500 support is far more time consuming so far more complicated to take on.

To someone else's point, Canon does not restrict us in what support we offer.
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to be honest i think that the fact there is no yet pro res support for high speed is one of the reasons why discounted C500 are not sold out yet..... it may sound stupid , but at least to me right now the high speed in cinema dng its like not no high speed at all...
But also Is not it true that C700 will have the same kind of Raw as C500? thats what Canon guy told in one of the interviews .... would not that mean that u may get more O7q sales from feature C700 owners?
 
As soon as I have my second SSD drive, I will be shooting some 4K RAW 60p and 120p. I'm happy that the Odyssey supports these in Canon's native RAW format (RMF) and not CDNG. The RMF files are absolutely massive (700 MB/s) and require conforming in post, but HFR is not something people typical shoot with all the time so there is no problem in converting the footage to ProRes if necessary. It just makes you go through an extra step. That's all.
 
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