C500 Price finally out... 20 000£

What is the recording medium for 4K?

Lots of devices were shown at NAB - is Canon doing anything as an official unit or are they doing 4K via dual 3G-SDI to 3rd party vendors?

It records HD/2K (according to specs) to onboard CF - so presumably, that's compressed.
 
"The EOS C500 features uncompressed Canon RAW output for both 4K and 2K recording. The Canon RAW output is delivered to external recording systems via built-in dual 3G-SDI ports. Dual uncompressed HD-SDI out ports supports external live monitoring. HD or 2K content can be written to dual onboard CF cards simultaneously to provide proxy video for offline NLE systems.

Canon has collaborated with some of the most respected names in the industry to ensure the standardized 4K/2K output interfaces work with external digital recording units, portable and master monitors and color grading systems - affording maximum flexibility to production and post-production teams."

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_c500
 
I don’t see the value in buying the C500 for 4K. I’m sure it’s a great camera but if you really need to shoot in 4K the RED is the better choice. The added cost of the external recorders don’t make financial sense.
 
Erik Naso said:
I don’t see the value in buying the C500 for 4K. I’m sure it’s a great camera but if you really need to shoot in 4K the RED is the better choice. The added cost of the external recorders don’t make financial sense.
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4K isn't the big benefit here; but shooting Canon RAW is. It's the same concept as using ArriRAW via external recorder. Saying that RED is a better choice for 4K is a blanket statement that definitely does not apply to all circumstances or shooting needs. Maybe it's better for you.
 
No need to get offended cowpunk52. It’s only my opinion. The RED Epic shots RED Raw internally. No external recorder needed. The 4K recorders are expensive. AJA Ki Pro Quad is $4k and the Convergent Design Gemini RAW 4K recorder estimated at $15K. That is more my point. The C500 seems to be in the same space as the RED Epic. And If I was going to spend that kind of money I do think that the Epic is a better choice.
 
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Erik Naso said:
No need to get offended cowpunk52. It’s only my opinion. The RED Epic shots RED Raw internally. No external recorder needed. The 4K recorders are expensive. AJA Ki Pro Quad is $4k and the Convergent Design Gemini RAW 4K recorder estimated at 15K. That is more my point. The C500 seems to be in the same space as the RED Epic. And If I was going to spend that kind of money I do think that the Epic is a better choice.
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Actually, the better comparison would be with the RED Scarlet, which is actually 50% cheaper than the C500.
 
Erik Naso said:
No need to get offended cowpunk52. It’s only my opinion. The RED Epic shots RED Raw internally. No external recorder needed. The 4K recorders are expensive. AJA Ki Pro Quad is $4k and the Convergent Design Gemini RAW 4K recorder estimated at $15K. That is more my point. The C500 seems to be in the same space as the RED Epic. And If I was going to spend that kind of money I do think that the Epic is a better choice.
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Not offended; it just seems that whenever somebody just says X cam is better than Y cam, with no explanation or elaboration, it's done to be inflammatory. And yes, the C500 does seem to share market with the Epic, which records it's raw format internally - and that feature would be nice to have onboard the C500. However, even factoring in the cost of a 4K external recorder with a C500 package, you'd likely end up spending about $15k or more for a comparable Epic package. Plus, you can use the 4K recorder with an Alexa cam if so desired in the future, or with any other cam that you don't want to record using on-board codec on (F3, FS700, etc) so there's quite a bit more options for cross-compatibility with that route. Not saying it's the right choice for everyone, but I definitely could see why a C500 with external 4K recorder would be an viable and versatile alternative to an Epic package.
 
yoclay said:
Actually, the better comparison would be with the RED Scarlet, which is actually 50% cheaper than the C500.
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Your right. The C500 looks to be retailing at $25K. Add a 4K/Raw recorder and it goes up to $30K or $40K. Now it’s in Epic price range.
 
yoclay said:
Actually, the better comparison would be with the RED Scarlet, which is actually 50% cheaper than the C500.
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The C500 sits rather comfortably feature-wise between the Scarlet and Epic cameras, and I think it's price placement reflects this quite well.
 
cowpunk52 said:
Not offended; it just seems that whenever somebody just says X cam is better than Y cam, with no explanation or elaboration, it's done to be inflammatory. And yes, the C500 does seem to share market with the Epic, which records it's raw format internally - and that feature would be nice to have onboard the C500. However, even factoring in the cost of a 4K external recorder with a C500 package, you'd likely end up spending about $15k or more for a comparable Epic package. Plus, you can use the 4K recorder with an Alexa cam if so desired in the future, or with any other cam that you don't want to record using on-board codec on (F3, FS700, etc) so there's quite a bit more options for cross-compatibility with that route. Not saying it's the right choice for everyone, but I definitely could see why a C500 with external 4K recorder would be an viable and versatile alternative to an Epic package.
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I don’t have a love affair with any camera manufacture and I didn’t say one was better than the other. The thread was about the price of the C500 and I only was adding to that conversation not saying the Canon C500 sucks. and the RED is the best. My opinion was about cost only. I’m sure it will be an awesome camera and I hope to shoot with it someday.
For me having less external anything is a good thing. Adding more pieces to the rig is a pain. If I could have raw and 4K internally that would make for a more compact system and for this kind of money it’s something to consider.
Now if the C500 did record raw/4K internally that would be a killer camera.
 
The Red records 4k internally, yes, but it's compressed. The C500 gives you an uncompressed 4K stream. That's a big difference. Worth the price difference? That's an individual decision. But the distinction should be drawn, because they're not delivering the same kind of 4k, one's compressed and the other is fully uncompressed.
 
Erik Naso said:
Your right. The C500 looks to be retailing at $25K. Add a 4K/Raw recorder and it goes up to $30K or $40K. Now it’s in Epic price range.
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Except a $30k epic package doesn't exist, and a $40k epic package won't have monitoring, camera control, media, or power. A viable production epic package is going to be between $50k and $60k. That's potentially nearing double the cost of a C500 w/ 4k recorder, batteries, and media (not to mention all control built in to the body, built in monitoring, etc.). For the cost of a full epic package I could get a C500, 4k recorder, spare media and batteries, a set of lenses (Canon L, Zeiss ZEs, or something similar), and a Honda Civic.

The C500 is in the Epic's price range the same way that the Epic is in the Alexa's price range.
 
I'm not particularly surprised by it being £20,000 but I'm sure they could make more money if they had made it cheaper. At this price range, people are still going to weigh up their options and consider RED. If they brought it out at £15,000 or less I think Canon would be running the show. Wonder if the C300 will drop in price...
 
red scarlet will cost less with full production package ready to shoot including both pl and ef mounts as well as both monitor & evf, ..... just wonder how they compare to each other (other then raw vs compressed raw)? as i understand scarlet as well has a 4k.....
 
I hardly see the Scarlet to compete with the c500. Maybe if you consider the dragon sensor update but for now the C500, offer a better picture, pleasure to shot, easy post production workflow and much better low light quality...
I wish they would have put the price 6 or 7k $ lower but she looks like a sexy option to me
 
It's definitely running with the pack. I wish I could run with them as well. The C500 with a Raw/4K external recorder does compare better with the Scarlet package.
 
I would like to wait for the USD price to be mentioned by B&H or Film tools. I am sure the USD price would be lower.

If you are looking at recording 4K internally, the EOS 1D C does that.

EPIC is way more costlier. In the past when I was planning a large project, I had keenly looked at the pricing of Epic. All these cameras have their strengths and limitations and are supposed to be used based on the strengths of their form factor, quality, ease of use and of course price.

Any idea how many Scarlets are already sold? And how many Epics? That will help us get some kind of estimate of the market.
 
Best bang for the buck if you need 4K right now and can deal with the workflow, a used Red One MX. I have seen full kits without lenses of course going for $11.5K! It is almost tempting to me, but as a former Red One M owner I really don't want to go down that road again. 95% of the video work I do is quick turn broadcast commercials where the 4K raw workflow is a hindrance costing the client more money for a quality level they can not discern once the spot hits the air.
 
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I guess the best thing is to buy the 1D C and use it for its 1080p 60fps. And in few occassions when you need 4k, use it to record 4K. Ofcourse, it will be without zebra, peaking etc.

I was under the impression that Canon will price the C500 at 24k USD. I am sure this camera will be widely used.

And, if the client doesn't need 4K, why to shoot at 4K raw and that too uncompressed? For that C300 should be fine.

David W. Jones said:
95% of the video work I do is quick turn broadcast commercials where the 4K raw workflow is a hindrance costing the client more money for a quality level they can not discern once the spot hits the air.
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