C500: C500 New at $6,999 is it worth it?

Mitch Gross said:
It would be pretty pointless to make a 4K viewfinder. The pixel pitch would be so small that it would be impossible to delineate the resolving image. There is simply a point beyond which we cannot judge focus, but there is also a point beyond which any technology cannot present focus. If the pitch is too tight, then bleed between the pixels eliminates resolution.
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Realistically the only way to judge 4K focus accurately is with a 27" or larger 4k monitor. I shot a PBS special with a 4K camera and the director was using the 20" Panasonic broadcast 1080p monitor and between the two of us, we both had a hard time judging when things were in sharp focus. Peaking in the 1080 VF helps of course. Mitch is correct, pixels are meaningless without the ability to resolve and delineate the image, the same reason that 4K televisions are pointless for most consumers at most typical viewing distances. https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/
 
Puredrifting, I was at a high end Audio Video store the other day and looking at the Sony 4K TV offerings, I was shocked how bad the 1080 looked on these! There was an outline around each football player, like the detail was turned all the way up? and the actual color and main content looked mushy. The 4K content looked amazing, I will say that.

Broatch
 
Mitch Gross said:
It would be pretty pointless to make a 4K viewfinder. The pixel pitch would be so small that it would be impossible to delineate the resolving image. There is simply a point beyond which we cannot judge focus, but there is also a point beyond which any technology cannot present focus. If the pitch is too tight, then bleed between the pixels eliminates resolution.
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Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. I can see many possible improvements to today's best EVFs with denser pixel displays than 1080P. Once technology is ready at the right price point. We're pretty far away from that, though. It's not that long ago we used Black & White EVFs!!!
 
B.Berry said:
Puredrifting, I was at a high end Audio Video store the other day and looking at the Sony 4K TV offerings, I was shocked how bad the 1080 looked on these! There was an outline around each football player, like the detail was turned all the way up? and the actual color and main content looked mushy... .

Broatch
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Having worked at (relatively) high end audio/video stores in the past, I'd venture a guess that the setup was intentionally askew. Sales people tend to do that now and again.

BTW, the smallest pro 4K monitors are 10", which should be enough - depending upon the variables - for focus racking to the point that, if you can't tell, neither can the viewer.
 
Parrot said:
Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. I can see many possible improvements to today's best EVFs with denser pixel displays than 1080P. Once technology is ready at the right price point. We're pretty far away from that, though. It's not that long ago we used Black & White EVFs!!!
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I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement -- there always is. But don't think that 4K pixel pitch is the panacea.
 
Parrot said:
- Zacuto EVF only reads 3G SDI Level A. F.ex. C300mk2 defaults to Level B, but is switchable. Not sure about C500.
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Zacuto EVFs only supporting 3G Level A is a bit annoying, actually! I just discovered that Odyssey7Q only takes Level B in 3G 444 (O7Q takes both 3G Level A & B in 422 60P) This shouldn't affect usage with C500 as I think the monitoring output on the C500 is 1.5G only. (On C300mk2 it means an additional menu dive when switching between 23.98P 444 and 60P 422...)

Atomos listed specs are rather vague, so no idea which level(s) they take in or out.

Would be better if all devices supported both 3G Level mappings across the board so we didn't have to think about this technical stuff!
 
puredrifting said:
No DPAF. That alone relegates it to narrative filmmaking type of shooting for many. It's weird, back in the day, all of our Betacams, DigiBeta and F900/Varicam cameras were manual focus only but somehow, with a B4 lens and a good B&W CRT viewfinder, pulling focus was so easy. Smaller sensors, high quality servo lenses. But when you are shooting 4K S35 imagers with the just barely adequate Canon eyepiece, it can be difficult to always achieve crisp, sharp focus in 4k. If you have a focus puller, big monitor and are using cine lenses, one of the best deals available. But most of us are shooting corporate, documentary, EPK, BTS, short form promo, sports, etc. For those uses, DPAF has become a valuable tool. Also, the C500 is old technology, but then again so are the F55 and F5 and they are still going strong. If the C500 had DPAF, I would buy it with the Odyssey over the C300 MKII, having the multiple Logs is nice but not a deal breaker that the C500 doesn't, at least for me.
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Canon could have easily offered a DPAF upgrade for the C500, in the same way that they did the $500 upgrade for the original C300. Minus the 4K output and compartment, it's the same camera after all. But I'm sure they felt that it would hurt their C300 II sales.

Likewise, why does the C300 II not have 4K 60P RAW and 4K 120P HRAW/4Kx1K through the SDI outputs like the C500? Is there a legitimate explanation other than protecting the C500 or C700 or whatever else they come up with?

Everything is just product differentiation to Canon (and Sony for that matter). Every new product has one thing you need but is missing one thing you wish you still had. For example, I would love the C500's sensor/image coupled with the C300 II's body and features, including the DPAF and the internal 4K and 2K RGB recording options.

But, sadly, we will never get everything that we want or need in one product, at least with Canon.
 
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I pulled the trigger on the C500! Thanks for all the information from fellow members. I also went with the Odyssey Q7+ on the recorder side of things.


Broatch Berry
 
B.Berry said:
I pulled the trigger on the C500! Thanks for all the information from fellow members. I also went with the Odyssey Q7+ on the recorder side of things.


Broatch Berry
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Congratulations, that's a nice setup. Let us know how it's working for you in a month or so.
 
Parrot said:
Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. I can see many possible improvements to today's best EVFs with denser pixel displays than 1080P. Once technology is ready at the right price point. We're pretty far away from that, though. It's not that long ago we used Black & White EVFs!!!
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I haven't done the math, however the VR folks are asking for 4K and more. Perhaps wide-angle optics as with a VR display (for one eye) with 4K would work very well for 4K fine focus.
 
Pascal_Parvex said:
And Adorama sells the Body for more than the kit with the 7Q+. :)

Anyway, I contacted B&H about the price difference:
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P.S. Not only did they end up reducing it from $11,000, but it's also now $500 less than Adorama. $8999 --> $8490

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1112203-REG/canon_6345b012_eos_c500_camera_ef.html

NorBro said:
Show B&H Adorama's price and they may match it. Business is weird. The industry is hurting these days and nothing is set in stone.
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:cheesy:
 
Yes, it's a great deal with the RAW package included in the deal, but it's the older Odyssey 7Q not the 7Q+ Canon made a deal with Convergent Design and packaged these two together, but it's the older 7Q also you will need to buy the drives!
I get my Camera today!!!! Looking at the Zacuto Z Finder recoil kit, on sale now at Zacuto Store (in the clearance section) for $1,600.00 Good mounting system and a not bad option using the onboard Canon monitor, if you buy a recoil kit for the
C500 you would also need a C300 grip, as the C500 doesn't come with one, but the C500 has the input connection for the C300 grip.
 
I am after a used Canon C500 ef mount. Keen to hear your thoughts worth getting the with odyssey or save harder and get an fs7.. I have always like Canon's image.

Also how much media would i need I would be shooting 1080P for quick projects and 4k for cinematic pro res not raw...

Thanks
 
Screaming deal of the month! Anyone looking for a Canon C500 PL with an Atomos Shogun, both brand new for only $5,500.00 they have one package left at this price at Ablecine in LA. Ask for Brian or Tim, in sales.
 
$5500 is a Remarkable price. However, the C500 EF is in much higher demand than the PL version.

I don't expect Canon to include DPAF in the C500. It will become way too attractive for a lot more people. Even without the DPAF, the C500 because of its low price is becoming attractive. I guess people who are using multiple cameras, would scoop up the C500s when they are available at such low prices.
 
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