C500 MKII Leaked on Canon Rumors

Grug said:
I'm feeling deeply, deeply tempted by it.

It's a hugely appealing camera to me. With the image quality of the C700 FF, I can use it as an A-camera on the features, series and commercials I shoot. And with the compact size and comprehensive feature set built into the base body, it will work great for the few solo documentary-style shoots I do as well.

Also, it's the same price as a Sony F5! Less, when you factor in the need for the R5 or R7 for raw recording with the Sony!
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I think you're exactly the kind of user Canon is targeting with the C500 MK II. It seems to me that C500 MK II is hoping to be a player in the segment currently occupied by the F55 and the Varicam LT which are obviously getting a fair amount of use in budgeted narrative work. Improved DPAF, dynamic range and low light performance could make the camera popular. The addition of 12-bit CRL that records to relatively affordable media could also make the C500 MK II attractive compared to the Varicam and F55.

Sony's new FX9 will likely be a good seller but from what I've read it doesn't seem to be the kind of camera that would be used to shoot an Amazon or Netflix narrative series. In the mid-tier narrative world where there is a budget for proper colorist the Canon's 12-bit CRL vs the Sony's presumed 10 bit XAVC seems a pretty huge advantage for the C500 MK II. Of course this is just speculation since the Sony hasn't been officially announced. I'm also pretty sure no one shooting a well budgeted narrative cable series will be asking me what camera they should use.

In some ways it seems like Canon did a reset with the C200 and now they are moving up market with the C500 MK II. Maybe there is still hope for a $10K C300 MK III and a $30K C700FF MKII but I don't know what those cameras would look like.
 
Gary T said:
Maybe there is still hope for a $10K C300 MK III and a $30K C700FF MKII but I don't know what those cameras would look like.
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Seriously, the C 500 II is basically the wishlist everyone had for the C300 III. No idea how you can slot in a camera in between the 500 and the 200.

I'm very tempted by the C500 II, but I'm going to wait for reviewers to put it through its paces for a while first. Probably by Christmas of 2020. If there aren't any serious gotchas, this would be a camera that could last me a long time without feeling obsolete.
 
As a previous C100, C100m2, and C200 owner, I would love to make it my A cam for weddings and commercials. I am also eager to see the quality of the stabilization and low light. I was put off by the bit of softness from the C200 in 8 bit, the lack of 10 bit, not able to record externally in 10 bit, and it just being big for gimbal work. So far, the S1 has fixed all my previous issues, but I miss the autofocus so much. The R is great in 10 bit, but the crop is annoying and dynamic range forces you to expose perfectly (for Clog) so you can grade properly.
Hopefully Sept-Dec of 2020 for me as well if all goes well.
 
Jaime Valles said:
Seriously, the C 500 II is basically the wishlist everyone had for the C300 III. No idea how you can slot in a camera in between the 500 and the 200.

I'm very tempted by the C500 II, but I'm going to wait for reviewers to put it through its paces for a while first. Probably by Christmas of 2020. If there aren't any serious gotchas, this would be a camera that could last me a long time without feeling obsolete.
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They probably didn't bother changing the C300 II because it still fulfills most broadcast requirements, they just needed to add a camera to the line that aimed at more of the cinema requirements that it didn't meet.

Personally it feels like a super solid upgrade to the C200, but doesn't make that camera obsolete in anyway. My main wish would be a CF Express / Dual SDI upgrade to the C200, but that's probably not enough for Canon to bother. Maybe next sensor revision.
 
One thing - all the chat of the price drops on the C200.
This does 4k 50p raw?
Is the new camera worth its price vs the C200?

Im gonna re-read up on the C200 :)
 
Jaime Valles said:
Seriously, the C 500 II is basically the wishlist everyone had for the C300 III. No idea how you can slot in a camera in between the 500 and the 200.
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The C300MIII could be a S35 4.6K (boring from BMD here for arguments sake) sensor camera with some 10bit ready-to-edit codec and optical stabilisation of the sensor and continuous recording.
Just saying there still is room for a S35 C-EOS camera geared towards docu-style shots.
I also don't think Canon would be so stupid as to kill their most successful Cinema EOS model.
 
morgan_moore said:
One thing - all the chat of the price drops on the C200.
This does 4k 50p raw?
Is the new camera worth its price vs the C200?

Im gonna re-read up on the C200 :)
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Yes, 10-bit 4K/50p RAW (and 12-bit 4K/25p RAW).

The C200 (especially the C200B) is a better value, IMO.
 
morgan_moore said:
One thing - all the chat of the price drops on the C200.
This does 4k 50p raw?
Is the new camera worth its price vs the C200?

Im gonna re-read up on the C200 :)
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Yes, the C200 does 4K 50p (and 60p in NTSC).

As for whether or not the C500 II is worth double the cost of the C200, that depends on what you need. The main advantages of the C500 (for me) are these:

1) Full Frame sensor
2) 5.9K resolution internal raw recording
3) Internal 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 full frame recording
4) Modular design

If those things don't make it sound like a worthwhile upgrade, the C200 is great as is.
 
Credit is due to Canon this is very close to my perfect
Filmmakers Camera, specs wise.
Live streaming and image preview from a table would be great to see. Regardless Canon got many things right.
If Panasonic can respond with something similar for 10k they may just put it up to Canon. This may not be possible with current market segmentation but it’s clear Canon have not held back, and basically have signaled the end of the C700 in all but the most high end situations. They may however update the C300 at NAB 2020 and include many of the current C500 II specs at 8-10k. Keeping the S35 sensor would also mean it’s not in direct competition with the C500 II. Interesting times !

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?362432-The-Perfect-Filmmakers-Camera
 
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Spartacus said:
The C300MIII could be a S35 4.6K (boring from BMD here for arguments sake) sensor camera with some 10bit ready-to-edit codec and optical stabilisation of the sensor and continuous recording.
Just saying there still is room for a S35 C-EOS camera geared towards docu-style shots.
I also don't think Canon would be so stupid as to kill their most successful Cinema EOS model.
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I think there's you are right. I doubt Canon's choice to maintain the C500 name was accidental so it stands to reason there will eventually be a new C300. Keeping that model at S35 would be one way to differentiate it for the C500 MK II.

Increased resolution generally means increased data rates, so I think there might be lots C300 shooters who would be happy with the current 1Gbs 4K CRL in an upgraded C300. Based on comments here at DVXUser, many would prioritize dynamic range and low light sensitivity over resolution especially if it cuts back on the data wrangling. 12-bit HFR capabilities would also be a way for Canon to further differentiate a updated C300 from the C200 so a future C300 with 4k/120FPS would be nice addition.

It will be interesting to see how Canon's C-line evolves. I could see an updated C100 with external RAW, the C200 staying as is for a while, a possible updated C300, the C500 MK II, and a possible updated C700 to compete directly with Panasonic's future replacement for the Varicam 35 and Sony's Venice.
 
An updated C100 Mark III with 10-bit 4K/60p would be lovely.

Having the LCD a part of the body just makes so much sense to me.

(I very much dislike Canon's current designs with the LCD attachment/hanging.)
 
I think the C500MKII looks to be a pretty brilliant camera, I’m beginning to think it will be a home run for Canon. I have a request in to review it as soon as they have review units available but there is very, very little to complain about from what I see.

I’m far too practical to buy one now at least though, it’s that needs versus wants thing though. My C200 right now seems to fulfill my needs quite well, the 12-bit CRL is excellent, I like most of the ergonomics, clients like the look and quality the C200 delivers. As much as I am tempted, I can’t think of anything the C500 MKII would do to increase profits or client satisfaction. So buying it would fulfill a want I have, but as a businessman, there is no reason for me to buy one now.

Clients don’t care about FF, 6K or any of the other cool things this camera has. I do, but they don’t. As a business expenditure, the C500 MKII would make zero sense for me at this moment in time. That can always change but as of the foreseeable future, no reason to upgrade. I’m living my signature below
 
morgan_moore said:
One thing - all the chat of the price drops on the C200...
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That will depend on how popular FX-6 is. As of now, C200 is still selling well. Canon's history is to drop prices on its popular cameras while keeping them in production. I can see a C200 MKII with minor upgrades for about the same price and then slowly dropping into the sub-$5,000 territory.

Gary T said:
... It will be interesting to see how Canon's C-line evolves. I could see an updated C100 with external RAW, the C200 staying as is for a while, a possible updated C300, the C500 MK II, and a possible updated C700 to compete directly with Panasonic's future replacement for the Varicam 35 and Sony's Venice.
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C-200 is likely to drop down to C100 price point, while a Canon mirrorless hybrid with the RF mount will compete against S1 and Z6 but even there Canon may be running out of slots. A rumored 70 MPX high end stills cam will go against A7RIV and, if it's priced at ~ $3,500, you may as well step up to C200 as a videocentric model. Should that fall down to ~ $5,000, I can see a S35 C300 MKIII with a 4.5K'ish sensor and the internal CRL to the CFexpress cards. Of course, with S1H and Pocket6K already out there, it's just as likely to see a 6K S35 C300 MKIII w/ CRL in order to place it in between a 4K C200 and a 6K full frame C500 MKII.

So Canon's Cinema EOS lineup might look like this - C200 for $5,000, C300 MKIII for $10,000 and C500 MKII for $16,000-$20,000 (depending on the configuration, which could also apply to C300 MKIII).

Sub-$5,000, you might see stills/video hybrids and camcorders.
 
NorBro said:
The C200 is $4,999 now, but without a viewfinder and LCD/handle (B version).

It still could be ready out-of-the-box though (besides lens/media) as it comes with a free Shinobi monitor from B&H:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1340802-REG/canon_2216c002_eos_c200b.html

I mean... $4,999 vs. $15,999 is just a big difference. But the camera...not really.
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$15,999 and then another $1600 if you want timecode in / out. Another $6k if you want the professional quality loupe. After all is said and done around $24k total. I suspect that Sony will smartly come in well under that with the Fx9 and the eyepiece / loupe will come standard as it does with the Fs7.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
What percentage of your work is that? :P
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Maybe 25-30% is that agency - they do consumer branding, facebook, POS (point of sale) -not really films or broadcast; it is not usual for them to require odd formats - this is the worst so far.

Their editor is also a fan of digital zooms and always wants '4k' for HD delivery.

Im just rebuffing Pure Driftings claim that 'no one cares' about resolution :)
 
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