C500: C500 ii: Delivery settings for 4k (4096 or 3084?)

S

seanadl

Active member
Hi folks,

At the moment, i'm shooting the majority of the videos for a project I'm working on in 4k, full frame, XF AVC rec 709.

I put the footage into my edit timeline (using Da Vinci Resolve) and keep the dimensions as 4096x2160. However, I've been told that delivery on YouTube in this aspect ratio tends to produce black bars on many devices, and its better to deliver in 3084x2160. Would I be better off recording this in the camera at this size, or simply downsizing in the edit in delivery (which will result in some of the sides being snipped off)?
 
seanadl said:
Hi folks,

At the moment, i'm shooting the majority of the videos for a project I'm working on in 4k, full frame, XF AVC rec 709.

I put the footage into my edit timeline (using Da Vinci Resolve) and keep the dimensions as 4096x2160. However, I've been told that delivery on YouTube in this aspect ratio tends to produce black bars on many devices, and its better to deliver in 3084x2160. Would I be better off recording this in the camera at this size, or simply downsizing in the edit in delivery (which will result in some of the sides being snipped off)?
Click to expand...

I think you mean 3840x2160, not 3084, also known as UHD? For me personally, I try to avoid shooting DCI as none of the mediums my work are shown on support the format, so why shoot it, why not shoot UHD as most of my work ends up being shown in 1080, so the aspect ratios match? My C200 only shoots RAW as DCI though. It's a trivial matter to blow up DCI by 3.5%, chopping off the ends of the raster to fill a 16:9 ratio screen like UHD or 1080, you just have to remember to do it. The letterboxing shown exhibiting 17:9 DCI on 16:9 devices is relatively minor.

The only thing that bugs the hell out of are edits that integrate 16:9 and 17:9 footage, where the letter boxing is shown on some frames and then it goes back to 16:9, that looks dumb.

In the end, it's an artistic as well as a technical choice and I have had a few clients specifically request me to shoot their footage in DCI and not UHD for various reasons, including theatrical exhibition at 2K. If you are only delivering to YouTube, I would just shoot UHD and be done with it.
 
seanadl said:
However, I've been told that delivery on YouTube in this aspect ratio tends to produce black bars on many devices...
Click to expand...

This is partly true...but only because many people are using the free version of Resolve, which limits the resolution to UHD (or has in previous versions), and the software is scaling the footage resulting in the final product having black bars.

A common mistake for many years (which many people don't notice).

If you work in a true DCI timeline and export and upload the file in its natural size (without adding any creative letterboxes), you won't have black bars on YouTube.
 
NorBro said:
This is partly true...but only because many people are using the free version of Resolve, which limits the resolution to UHD (or has in previous versions), and the software is scaling the footage resulting in the final product having black bars.

A common mistake for many years (which many people don't notice).

If you work in a true DCI timeline and export and upload the file in its natural size (without adding any creative letterboxes), you won't have black bars on YouTube.
Click to expand...

You will still have black bars in full screen mode on your TV or monitor though. It still has to be letter boxed or cropped to fit the difference in aspect ratio. No way around that.
 
In full-screen mode, for sure. But then the bars are also there for UHD too.

The dissimilarity in my partial explanation above is between the incorrect handling of a file and its ultimate presentation.

In other words, editing DCI material on a UHD timeline that is scaling it appropriately, and then uploading it to YouTube in that state. Versus uploading DCI to YouTube and that software adjusting it during playback.

What you're saying is obvious and of course true as you can't fill a box's edges with something else (in its original size) that is bigger or smaller unless there is a compromise either through zooming/removing or filling in the space with something else (the color black).
 
NorBro said:
In full-screen mode, for sure. But then the bars are also there for UHD too.

The dissimilarity in my partial explanation above is between the incorrect handling of a file and its ultimate presentation.

In other words, editing DCI material on a UHD timeline that is scaling it appropriately, and then uploading it to YouTube in that state. Versus uploading DCI to YouTube and that software adjusting it during playback.

What you're saying is obvious and of course true as you can't fill a box's edges with something else (in its original size) that is bigger or smaller unless there is a compromise either through zooming/removing or filling in the space with something else (the color black).
Click to expand...

I have been editing DCI material on a DCI timeline (using studio version of resolve). From what I gather the issue is that when a DCI file is uploaded to YouTube, youtube sometimes adds black bars to it for some reason.

Another issue i'm having - i record at 25fps, timelines and delivery are also at 25fps. Sometimes the output is a bit choppy, and its the stuff from the camera. Playing it back within resolve, it looks smooth. So i'm guessing its my delivery settings in resolve.
 
Upload any UHD footage (3840 x 2160) and watch it in the full-screen mode on a laptop or an iPad (and you'll see black bars on the screens as well). 4K DCI's bars just go up/down a little bit more (they are necessary for the right fit).

If you upload UHD and DCI and watch both in the regular mode (not full-screen) by flipping the browser tabs back and forth, you'll see the rectangles change shapes and there will be no black bars on either of them.
 
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