C500: C500 and The Atomos Shogun

It would seem shooting 2K ( which will be most of my interviews ) the fan noise was not an issue? probably less taxing on processing the data rate compared to 4K
 
I always preferred recording 1080 or 2K to Prores in the Odyssey 7Q- there was a noticeable improvement in the image, and also the dynamic range (highlights). In the summer the fans would kick on in a warm room going 1080 Prores to the O7Q.

Back to the OP- I have many good things to say about the Odyssey 7Q/+ and also Video Devices Pix-E5 (yes, doesn't do RAW) as I've owned both and used both on every shoot- if not as a recorder as on camera monitors. They simply work and can survive production, that's to say they can survive union AC's working with rental gear. Multiple AC's here in NYC have reported the same thing to me about Atomos products, so I never bought one. In fact have never used one and cannot report on Atomos gear first hand. But as you see here Mitch is a constant presence on DVXUser and a great source of information and is an accessible point of contact for Convergent Design. A lot to be said for that.
 
2K 444 RGB 12bit uncompressed is quite a bit of information, but way less that 4K RAW, also you can up to 60fps 2K 444 RGB, and up to 120fps 2K YUV 422 Not bad! Just hoping the fan will stay quiet during 2K 10-12bit 444 RGB interviews.
 
B.Berry said:
2K 444 RGB 12bit uncompressed is quite a bit of information, but way less that 4K RAW, also you can up to 60fps 2K 444 RGB, and up to 120fps 2K YUV 422 Not bad! Just hoping the fan will stay quiet during 2K 10-12bit 444 RGB interviews.
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Actually it's the same data load, but given the way the C500 processes and delivers the info it is less taxing to the processor.
 
Same again, I was the guy commenting an Shane's Inner circle B.Berry. It is a pain as I shoot interviews say for around an 1 hour stop and start and cutaways. I don't want to go to an fs7 really . I would love to hear how loud the fan is. Is it really that bad.

Shame we have to compromise on this.

Mitch, The fan plan sounds great I am after a used one here in the UK around 3500 GBP whereas a new c300 mKII Is nearly 10,000 so its out of my price range.

I still have a c100 MKI as a back up I guess.

Thanks
 
Like someone else mentioned, I also don't see how the fan noise would be audible during the time when talent is speaking into a lav mic, but I guess I have to test it out.
 
Yeh I mean depends how far away you are and what set up you have. I use AKG Blueline for indoors with the Hyper cardioid capsule sounds great. Only use shotgun really for outdoors and Lav for more moving shots.

I am keen to see how it sounds. Its such a shame if it is really bad as 15k original price aimed at no sound recording just images is awful. Great image tho still think fs7 is not as nice as this.
 
Anyone talking or with information about the C500 fan noise, I started a new thread under Cinema EOS on this forum. C500 noise be gone!
 
Like every new piece of gear, test it thoroughly before bringing it on set. Or be a bone-head like me and get SURPRISED!
 
I'm not a super star genius like you Mitch, when it comes to how these amazing cameras and recorders work, but it looks like the data rate is a few hundred million bits per second less in 2k mode than the 4K mode? just saw this on a Canon spec sheet, would that couple hundred million bits make a difference in the heat generated.

Canon 4K: 4444 Bayer RAW Data rate @ 30 fps
2048 x 1080 x 4 x 10 x 30 = 2,654,208,000 bits/ second
Canon 2K: RGB 4:4:4@12 -bit Data Rate at 30 fps
2048 x 1080 x 3 x 12 x 30 = 2,388,787,200 bits / second

http://learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/white_papers/White_Paper_originatinghighqualityc500.pdf
 
I think I would be content using the 2K 444 RGB on the C500, Just hoping the fan will stay off in this mode when recording.
 
With my vision these days, I wonder how much of life's picture I'm missing? I need to update my data processing.
 
The difference is not the amount of data, it is what the camera does with that data. As a 4K RAW image, the processor must do comparative math to determine values and offsets for every pixel. Canon does this because it with the way it squeezes the data through the pipe, it has to trinket the RAW to 10-bit. So the camera bakes in significant aspects of the signal. Mind you the C500 does an excellent job of it, but there's a lot of processing going on.

In 2K 4:4:4, Canon is quite clever in that it DOES NOT DEBAYER. How, you ask? Canon was quite proud of this when they released the camera, and I believe there's at least one white paper by Larry Thorpe on the subject. Basically, the C500 takes a group of four photo sites, one red, on blue and two green (bright & dark) and simply assigns them each to become the color channel info for a single pixel (the two greens are mixed in something a bit more complex than a simple averaging). There's a bit of additional processing, but essentially that is it. Simple, clever and efficient, and a hell of a lot less processor-intensive than the work that goes into dealing with passing an uncompressed 4K RAW signal.

So that is why the camera is taxed so much less in 2K RGB mode compared to 4K RAW. It's not the data, it's what you do with it.


BTW, as I understand it the issue of fan noise was dramatically mitigated with the firmware update to the camera, but I have not tested this myself.
 
Thank's Mitch, I love the science and color of Canon, add an Odyssey 7Q+ and sky's the limit! I Hope to keep the C500 and work around the fan issue. I Just have quite a bit invested into the system now and hoped for sound free problems.
 
The thing about C500 is that highlight roll-off is almost non-existent, clipped area looks harsh and unnatural. Light and expose the camera within its 12 stop boundary the images are breathtaking.
 
B.Berry said:
Okidoki, These were two replies I got from Shane Hurlbut ASC, on the fan noise issue, shooting 4K and 2K. The last comment by Shane, was on shooting Fathers and Daughters ( shot in 2K )

The fan was a major problem. On Need for Speed which was the first feature shot with this camera we had Canon re work their firmware so that it would give us about 8 minutes. But this all depends on the heat in the room. Many takes on the film were compromised because the fans came on and we had to cut. You take the good with the bad sometimes. I would not suggest this camera ever for an docu/interview camera.

In 2K we did not seem to have a problem at all. But it was the winter in Pittsburgh. Very cold
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So it does not matter if it is in 4k or 2k - 70 degree room temp - Fan triggered 14 mins from cold with 4k - time shortens with warm camera to 7 mins + or - ... I tried 2k RGB 12Bit - 12 mins from a few minutes of warm up - 7 mins or so afterward fan turns off... same issues int 2k 10bit...

I am going to test audio from a close shot gun and cardiod mic next week from a distance of 5, 7, and 10 ft away next week.

Best Regards,

Chris McGuinness
www.pulsecinema.com
 
Thank's Chris, was this with the latest firmware 1.0.7.1.00 and were you recording to the CF cards as well as an external recorder. I'm doing some house work and repair, after I clean up over the weekend, I'm going to test the C500 and Odyssey in all record modes. I have a great audio set up with a Schoeps MK41 and a lav mic Sonotrim or Seinnheiser MK2, I have a feeling from 8-10 feet we should be able to handle the fan noise.

I don't want to get into returning the C500 and start getting into the C300 II, unless this fan noise is really that big a problem.
 
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