C300: C300mk2 real world footage and user reviews.

remsyatassi said:
Who knows what the color profiles used in these shots (or your one off project) was. In 10 bit log you need a LUT for both cameras anyways, and I've seen gorgeous colors from the FS7. All versions of S-Log aren't even the same, and Cine EI is different than custom modes.

I get that's it is a trendy bandwagon to whine about colors, and I've done it before myself, but it just doesn't have a lot of merit with these cameras. It's fair to say that out of the box, comparing specific profiles, that you like ones colors more than the other. But the whole "Sony colors" argument is just marketing drilled in your head.

This video did a good job summarizing the actual differences. FWIW I don't own either camera, I have a C100 and A7s.
Click to expand...


I was just giving my opinion in regards to my real world experience with this camera's footage. FYI the projects I've worked on involved using footage shot on a C300mkI years ago mixed with FS7 and the C300mkI footage looked a lot better. It was all natural light shot in the same locations. I was unable to recreate the same look with the FS7 footage as the blues and greens were always pushing too much. Just my experience on a real life, non-test project. I certainly said nothing about a "Sony look" and I did want to like the camera but IMO it isn't as great as some people say.
 
What was the gamma and gammut of the footage you have worked with from the FS7? I have a feeling the LPTG test was filmed in Custom.
 
remsyatassi said:
Who knows what the color profiles used in these shots (or your one off project) was. In 10 bit log you need a LUT for both cameras anyways, and I've seen gorgeous colors from the FS7. All versions of S-Log aren't even the same, and Cine EI is different than custom modes.
Click to expand...

I've shot extensively with Canon and the FS7 and the CineEI and LC709a (Aka, new Sony Color Science) has really great colors. Might be a little different than Canon, but equally cinematic. With the FS7, there's just too many crappy options like Custom or some of the Hypergammas that people tend to use a lot. Stick the CineEI and LC709a and the colors are great.
 
Noel Evans said:
Canon DSLRS pixel bin, or in simple terms, throws away line of information. The C300 MKII crops, so it goes into a true 2k or true 1080 section of the sensor. That's entirely different. The 120FPS shot from Film Riot, not sure but looks much softer than other 120FPS shots I've seen thus far. Not sure why so I cant offer any explanation. Will take a look at the camera myself this Wednesday and hoping for a few days hands on not long after as well. Interested to see it with my own eyes that's for sure.
Click to expand...

I've always assumed that Canon DSLR's also use a 2K or 1080 section of the sensor, Canon just uses line skipping or binning to get there. The 2K frame is then debayered and this results in the relatively low detail of the resulting 2K image. Correct me if I'm wrong. The only DSLR that doesn't seem to do this is the 1DC in S35 mode that seems to process a higher number pixels to get to it's 1080p image. All I know for sure is that the 120p from the C300 mkii looks an awful lot like the 1080 60p from my 1DC.
 
AndreeOnline said:
I think the last 8-10 posts I've read from you here has been this same broken record. Is there a special reason you are hitting this crooked nail so hard? It is especially fascinating that this horse just won't stay dead, since there is an actual white paper describing exactly what the camera does!

So:
  1. Does someone not understand what the white paper says?
  2. Is Canon lying in the white paper?
  3. Was Larry Thorpe drunk when he wrote it, and no one ever checked what he was writing?

Even the best equipment can make fuzzy images if any number of things go wrong. This is probably especially true for rental gear that might not be familiar to the user.

The best slow motion footage I've seen is totally in line with a clean sensor crop, taken the smaller size into account. You'll never quite the same resolution with normal EF-glass on that small area as you would if the 2k pixels had been larger and spread over the S35 size.
Click to expand...

Not sure whats more troubling, you keeping track of my last 10 posts or that you are unable to recognize a 2k container when you see it. Perhaps its time you got the prescription checked? A lot of your logic seems to rely on marketing propaganda that should be taken with a large grain of salt. In all fairness though, I'm sure there will be many eyebrows raised the second this camera gets pointed at an ISO 12233 chart @ 120p.
 
I have yet to see to my eye any footage from the canon c300 mark mII that would make me remotely even consider it. IMO the mark I trumps it in color and looks. At this point for it's price point I am far from impressed.
 
LeoGrey said:
A lot of your logic seems to rely on marketing propaganda that should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Click to expand...

Look we're viewing this differently, but instead of derailling into a discussion that's of no use to anyone, let's see if we can address the points constructuively.

Has some of the 120fps footage been soft? Yes. Agreed.

My question for you: do you think the white paper from Canon is propaganda that should be taken with a grain of salt?
 
AndreeOnline said:
Do you really mean the dog and the running woman is soft, or do you mean the LensRental's footage with the cheerleader girl out of focus? <--- That's the worst I've seen so far, but I'm thinking it was an auto focus issue or other setup error.
Click to expand...

Yes, the cheerleader. Something not right there.

traviswears said:
Let us know if you get the chance to do any camera tests. I'm considering renting one myself and doing some comparisons with the original C300/C100.
Click to expand...

I will be doing some direct comparisons to C300 V1.

bytorloveslerxst said:
This is the first video where I've seen these cameras side by side and you can really see the color problems with the FS7. I haven't shot much with the FS7 but I've edited footage shot on it and in my experience it really accentuates the greens and blues as you can see in this video.
Click to expand...

Some of the interior lighting was funky for both cameras and exterior exposures were very up and down. I don't think either camera performed that well due to this.

Also, the low light footage was missing the point of lowlight for me. When you shoot ISO 5000 for example, the point isn't to under expose as shown in the video. The point of pushing to 5000+ is so you can expose properly in lower light / less G&E conditions.
LeoGrey said:
The mk II certainly doesn't perform a clean crop on the sensor. Judging from the footage currently available, It looks like its in the >720p ballpark. If you have ever used a c500 in 120p mode its blatantly clear that Canon is using the same old hat trick to get that frame rate the mk ii.
Click to expand...

I've seen no evidence of this anywhere.

cpreston said:
I've always assumed that Canon DSLR's also use a 2K or 1080 section of the sensor, Canon just uses line skipping or binning to get there. The 2K frame is then debayered and this results in the relatively low detail of the resulting 2K image. Correct me if I'm wrong. The only DSLR that doesn't seem to do this is the 1DC in S35 mode that seems to process a higher number pixels to get to it's 1080p image. All I know for sure is that the 120p from the C300 mkii looks an awful lot like the 1080 60p from my 1DC.
Click to expand...

Yeah its not quite that simple. What you're saying is accurate, however by throwing out every other line of information the resulting resolution suffers. The 1DC is a different camera altogether from your standard DSLR. Personally I havent seen a lot of 1DC 60P, so you'd know better than I, again however I'll reserve my final judgement until I've seen it first hand.
 
cpreston said:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Canon's white paper on the C300 mkII explains how it captures images at 120fps. It crops the 4096x2160 sensor's central part consisting of 2048x1080px.

Alright. So now we have a smaller 2k "sensor" that is Bayer sampled. Those 2k 'pixels' are devided into four frames: one RED, two GREEN and one BLUE. Each of these discrete frames is 1024x560 samples (remember that Bayer is every other pixel, if you look at it per color). There are no skipped pixels so far, agreed?

Now, these individual frames are upsampled to three (R+G+B) 2048x1080 frames. Here we have averaging of the samples and this is good against aliasing. These three frames are then overlayed and we have the final 2048x1080 pixel crop that we started with. At no point has there been any scaling or skipping. Only per channel averaging - which is a feature... not a resolution robbing cheat.

Can we all agree that this is what the white paper says? I'm pretty sure lots of the opinions here are based around people thinking the camera makes a 1024x560px readout and then scales it, which isn't the case.

I have no interest in this camera and I have no stake in defending it. But let's get the facts straight and then you can all call the footage as soft as you like.

Bloom's slowmo footage (and Film Riot's) are definitely sharper than 1Dc 60fps.
 
Last edited:
LeoGrey said:
Not sure whats more troubling, you keeping track of my last 10 posts or that you are unable to recognize a 2k container when you see it. Perhaps its time you got the prescription checked? A lot of your logic seems to rely on marketing propaganda that should be taken with a large grain of salt. In all fairness though, I'm sure there will be many eyebrows raised the second this camera gets pointed at an ISO 12233 chart @ 120p.
Click to expand...
First off, Andree is a smart guy and knows his stuff. Second, he correct in calling you out on the multiple post thing...and that seems to be a recurring problem on this blog. There is no need to keep posting one's point over and over again....and to your point, there has been zero 2K high speed footage posted from a production run camera, only prototype footage so be patient and wait. As for your comment on "marketing propaganda", understand that Canon is a very conservative company and their legal side would never allow the marketing side to put out info that wasn't true.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Jim Martin said:
As for your comment on "marketing propaganda", understand that Canon is a very conservative company and their legal side would never allow the marketing side to put out info that wasn't true.
Click to expand...
i ve been thinking same way about German cars, but as it turned out.....
 
Jim Martin said:
First off, Andree is a smart guy and knows his stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he is, nowhere in my post did I say he wasn't. What I did say was that I am confident(and so are many others) that 120p out of this camera is incapable of resolving 2,048 lines on an ISO 12233 chart. However it produces that image(debayer,up-sampling, scaling, binning, line skipping, etc) is nearly irrelevant and can be subjectively debated. One thing is for certain though, and that is all the white papers in the world are not gonna make the image any more detailed.

Jim Martin said:
As for your comment on "marketing propaganda", understand that Canon is a very conservative company and their legal side would never allow the marketing side to put out info that wasn't true.
Click to expand...

Your kidding me right Jim? God bless your relationship with Canon and their legal department, but with this much money on the line I hope you'll understand if we skip the shenanigans and let the evidence do the talking.
 
Last edited:
What's worse for marketing, having a 120p that doesn't come close to matching the detail of the standard 1080p image or not having 120p at all? I think that is a legitimate question.

120p is near the bottom on my list of priorities, but I'm sure that everyone can agree that the C300 II 120p is going to be less detailed than the regular 1080p image. It has to be. It's using 1/4 as many photosites. My guess is that it is going to look a bit like the footage you get from some of the lower end Canon DSLR's that have a center crop feature available for video. It might look a bit better due to the better processor in the C300 II, but your still dealing with a center crop.

I think we should also all expect that the 4K image is not going to resolve nearly 4000 lines. For that, we will have to wait for the 8K sensor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top