FS7: C300 MkII makes the FS7 look like good value

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bengiles

Well-known member
Canon sent out blurb for the new C300 MkII this morning. Looks like it'll have a UK price of £11300 +VAT.

They've done nothing to address the ergonomics of the C300 - so you're looking at the usual rigging to make it work handheld.

Codecs are same home-brew-AVC-Intra as Sony XAVC. CFast II, rather than XQD.

Makes the FS7 look pretty cheap in comparison - I'm relieved to not be getting "wish I'd held out for C300 MkII" feelings, despite owning a comprehensive collection of L Lenses.

Ben.
 
Best part about the FS7 is that I can go shoot with it tomorrow :)

By the time the C300II hits streets the FS7 will have been shooting 4K and 120fps + for almost a year.
 
Just the fact that everyone, and I mean everyone, is comparing it to the FS7 is a huge compliment because at $16K on B&H, it costs twice as much. C300 II shouldn't even be a competitor to the FS7, the C100 II is more like the real competitor because it's almost the same price.
 
a lot of people are using C300 now and they will be ok to wait for the mkII....the AF should be pretty nice, i am sure the high iso will be a clear winner but yes, all in all it looks pretty bad compared to FS7...and by the time is will actually be available i would not be surprised to see something new from sony (if not sooner)...a F5 follow up in the 20K range....
i also agree that 16K is a little crazy but i am sure they will sell a ton....
 
Unfortunately I can see lots of people getting C300mk2, as there are tonnes of C300 cameras out there, and this offers them a straight forward and dead simple path to get 4K and higher frame rates (which is the big issues the old C300 vs FS700 faced). So those who love their C300 and have been working hard with it, could be tempted by the very familiar.

Personally, no chance on earth I'm getting a C300mk2! (though I've used a rental C300)
But I certainly can't afford a FS7 either :-P However hopeful within a couple of years I could buy a second hand FS7..
 
its hard for me to talk about usa, but here in europe, well in eastern europe , u cant make any producer and operator to work with sony, its like a no no... there were few project in my country with f55, but its only because the producers from uk specifically asked for f55, otherwise it would be arri. u have budget - arri, little less budget - red, small budget 99.9% C300 (in worst case scenario 5D). its hard to say WHY, but locally both and DoPs and editors really hate sony. u cant even start a conversation about it. what ? sony? r u nuts? i was really surprised about it at the time when i was choosing my 1st pro cam...

it really does not meter how many extras sony has on paper, its just no one here wants to work with it. of course if u do weddings, or some similar work where u r on your own - no one cares what u use....

Also Canon pro Support is an excellent service, too bad i cant repair my c300 locally (same would be with sony pro cams), but last year i had to clean my sensor after one project, and i went to local canon service, they packed my c300 them self, they called a courier, and sent it out to service, and after 2 days it was sent back, - i payed nothing at all! they also cleaned the whole cam, they changed/upgraded the internal battery, and they installed some improved dust filters. and they also performed the sensor test under different iso....

most local docu movies filmed with c300 , in fact i have not heard yet about any local project where any of the Sony cams were chosen for its specific technical specifications! but people do choose c300 and for what it does - and it does it great.... was there a price drop or was not - it did not stops working. c300 - it just works!
 
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For me this is fiction as the FS7 was at the top of my price range.

My understanding is that the C300 is basically on par with the FS7 and rear box, which closes the price gap.

The FS7 is a bit wooly in the mode above 72FPS so sharper 120 might be better than wooly 180 (dug deeeeep in the menu if you are a PAL guy)

The C300 seems to have some excellent focus aids - some of which might be a critical advantage when RunGunning.

The FS7 Vfinder is a bit of a let down leading me to search for (£1000) alternatives - a Canon probably needs an external EVF too.

Canon still has a major fail on the audio positioning - but it does have 4channels without buying you into proprietry lavs (?)
The FS7 has various fails in menu structure.

Canon may actually support LUTs, consistent shutter angle and not be confusing to use.

So it seems IMO that you get more and pay more for the C300.

Given a week to rig the C300 and £2000 for accs on top Id probably pick the C300 given the choice.

The FS7 of course has a huge advantage for working with Canons best glass... FD.

Overall Id give them both 9/10 for image, 7/10 for value and 2/10 for inspired ergonomics and design.

S
 
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bengiles said:
They've done nothing to address the ergonomics of the C300 - so you're looking at the usual rigging to make it work handheld.
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There are people out there complaining about the C300 ergonomics - and there are all the people out there making it the No.1 rental cam;)
Two owner/operators I know have bought the FS7 and immediately bought 3rd gear to make "the cat" sit better on their shoulders and make it more sturdy.
All cameras out there need to be rigged, when you favor a "traditional" shoulder style camera.
And there are many advantages of an balanced rig, but you pay the price of extra weight.
But you can - and many, many do - just shoot with the C300 cradled against your chest.
For me, the FS7 feels unstable on my shoulder, though this might be cured with a simple half-round shoulder pad going back over the shoulder.
 
Spartacus said:
Two owner/operators I know have bought the FS7 and immediately bought 3rd gear to make "the cat" sit better on their shoulders and make it more sturdy.
All cameras out there need to be rigged, when you favor a "traditional" shoulder style camera.
And there are many advantages of an balanced rig, but you pay the price of extra weight.
But you can - and many, many do - just shoot with the C300 cradled against your chest.
For me, the FS7 feels unstable on my shoulder, though this might be cured with a simple half-round shoulder pad going back over the shoulder.
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The problem with the C300 design isn't that it can't be rigged or that the FS7 needs a shoulder baseplate also. The issue is that when you put the C300 (I'm referecing Mk1 as I have only exp with it) on your shoulder many of the buttons are in the wrong place. Audio adjustment at the furthest front portion with XLR coming out sideways. An EVF that is at the rear of the camera. A front monitor with little adjustment. The buttons for ISO, WB etc are on the back which is now behind your ear. Plus its all weighted very top heavy. The FS7 just with a simple baseplate is already many times better on my shoulder than the C300 rigged all to hell with another $5K of parts (grip ext, 3rd party EVF, baseplate)

Spartacus said:
There are people out there complaining about the C300 ergonomics - and there are all the people out there making it the No.1 rental cam;)
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The C300 wasn't the #1 rental cam out there due to its ergonomics. It was the #1 camera DESPITE its ergonomics. It offered something in a camera no other camera did at the time which made it the only option for TV production for a while. Now the C300II is coming out in a market where a camera like the FS7/F5 will have been covering the same spec base for a year. C300II will no doubt sell well based on name recognition with producers and Canon has worked hard on mindshare but unless you are shooting for other producers who demand the C300II its hard not to go with an FS7 or C300I and keep $8K in your business.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
The problem with the C300 design isn't that it can't be rigged or that the FS7 needs a shoulder baseplate also. The issue is that when you put the C300 (I'm referecing Mk1 as I have only exp with it) on your shoulder many of the buttons are in the wrong place. Audio adjustment at the furthest front portion with XLR coming out sideways. An EVF that is at the rear of the camera. A front monitor with little adjustment.
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Not saying the C300's form factor is the holy grail;)
BUT it is just not meant to sit on your shoulder. So the EVF is exactly where its supposed to be! Same goes with the front monitor: It's at the place, where most rigged cameras put their external 7" monitors. And Sony seems to have liked the placement;)
And for the audio dials and adjusting audio on the fly: Who does this?
The XLR would be better if not placed in the handle, but angled low-profile XLR cables areN#t exactly luxury accessories...



FrameFarmMedia said:
The C300 wasn't the #1 rental cam out there due to its ergonomics. It was the #1 camera DESPITE its ergonomics. It offered something in a camera no other camera did at the time which made it the only option for TV production for a while. Now the C300II is coming out in a market where a camera like the FS7/F5 will have been covering the same spec base for a year.
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Is there's a way to back that up? And every new pro-camera gets some buzz, but will it stick?


FrameFarmMedia said:
C300II will no doubt sell well based on name recognition with producers and Canon has worked hard on mindshare but unless you are shooting for other producers who demand the C300II its hard not to go with an FS7 or C300I and keep $8K in your business.
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The FS7 is more affordable, that's a fact;) So is a Blackmagic Production Camera. Still doesn't say anything about the C300II.

BTW I won't buy a C300II. No need for it. Doesn't make it a bad purchase for others though;)
 
anatusa said:
its hard for me to talk about usa, but here in europe, well in eastern europe , u cant make any producer and operator to work with sony, its like a no no... there were few project in my country with f55, but its only because the producers from uk specifically asked for f55, otherwise it would be arri. u have budget - arri, little less budget - red, small budget 99.9% C300 (in worst case scenario 5D). its hard to say WHY, but locally both and DoPs and editors really hate sony. u cant even start a conversation about it. what ? sony? r u nuts? i was really surprised about it at the time when i was choosing my 1st pro cam...
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Well, I'm glad that's certainly not the case here in Los Angeles.

While I think the C300 II will sell well, it's not going to be nearly as big as the first version simply because there's a lot more choices. When the C300 came out the first time, it was really the only game in town and rode on the coattails of the Canon DSLR revolution. Now with the FS7 being hugely popular, the fact that the C300 II isn't coming out till the end of the year (which means more FS7s sold) and that higher end cameras like the Red and the Alexa Mini are almost affordable (especially the Red), the landscape is very different than 2011 / 2012. With Weapon coming out, I wouldn't be surprised if the price of Dragon dropped a few grand which would further effect things. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony came out with a C300 II competitor by then.

So yeah, tons of choices now whereas the original C300 really had no competition.
 
I bought my FS7 a few months ago and I went through the same decision making process. My first real camcorder was a FS100 a few years ago where I shot a couple hundred hours on it but I always wanted to get more out of the camera, so I jumped and grabbed the FS700. I really loved this camera and all you could do with it. The 7Q brought the 4K to 1080p ProRes and the image was better than I ever imagined. Last year I saw the FS700 prices slowly tanking and I was doing a ton of event coverage where I had to rent additional cameras. I did the number crunching and it was way cheaper to rent 2 C100’s than keep my FS700 and rent another one. So I decided to sell my FS700. For over 20 events, I rented 2 C100s from a local shop and cameras were super robust. It worked and had no problems.

Fast forward to 2015… I am focusing my efforts more on all types of video and saw the FS7 come out. I was debating between getting a FS7 or C500 with 7Q. I really needed an all around great camera that could do it within its own body without the need for extra rigging. I opted out for the FS7 because the concept of having a lightweight stripped down version of a camera that does 4K internally compared to a C500 completely rigged up made me instantly side with the FS7. The weight adds up quickly. Not to mention, the cost at the time was a 5k difference in favor of the FS7.

The FS7 is the first camera where I feel like I can do everything with it. Internally, barebone on the go shooting is a breeze. If I need more, rent the back unit and 7Q for RAW. I can use a wide variety of lenses on it, something that was limited on the Canon cameras. I can rig it up nicely if needed for bigger productions. It just felt right.

In the end, I am sure people who can afford it in their business will love the C300 Mark II. For my business, I didn’t want to continually rent for every project and I needed something like the FS7. If the C300 Mark II was a 9-10k camera and came out at the end of last year… I would have highly considered it. At it’s current pricing and it’s estimated release - it isn’t worth it to me. I would have shot numerous projects by then on the FS7 which I wouldn’t have been able to do while waiting and renting. After you buy cards, extra batteries, rigging, and everything else - you are pushing 20k probably. I would rather pick up a used F5 decked out over a C300 Mark II.
 
Osslund said:
One thing with Canon cameras. They work very well without issues. My 5D3 feels like brand new yet it's 3 years old.
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What to say to this...

I have had 5dmk 2 and 7d, a bunch of problems, specially with the 7d.

I have used c300 a lot, have not had any real issues while recording, but have had some issued in post with footage offlining a lot on long clips.

Have used fs700 for two years, not a single issue. Well, actually I had one issue with a dead pixel (red spot) in the image, but I did an auto black balance and it dissapeared. Before this I used ex1 for years, never had one single problem with this camera.

It´s all about preferences and handling your equipment with respect and care imo.
 
I've had a few Sony and Canon cameras and to the Canons have been more robust. But I have a FS7 and really like despite the issus it has. My FS100 had issus also.
 
nareik said:
What to say to this...

I have had 5dmk 2 and 7d, a bunch of problems, specially with the 7d.

I have used c300 a lot, have not had any real issues while recording, but have had some issued in post with footage offlining a lot on long clips.

Have used fs700 for two years, not a single issue. Well, actually I had one issue with a dead pixel (red spot) in the image, but I did an auto black balance and it dissapeared. Before this I used ex1 for years, never had one single problem with this camera.

It´s all about preferences and handling your equipment with respect and care imo.
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I also had virtually no issues with the FS700. But the FS7 on the other hand... buggy, some features don't work, I've had the LUTs burn in when they weren't supposed to, I've had it randomly freeze up and I had to send it in to Sony for two weeks (luckily I still had the FS700 as a backup at the time)... It's been a disaster compared to the FS700. I still enjoy the camera and honestly really like the footage I'm getting from it. But I can't say I'm always confident the camera will work. That's where I think the Canon stuff is justified by the guys who are buying them. They aren't over-promising certain features and then dropping the ball on usability, performance, etc.

We get suckered into resolution, frame rates, etc... and on paper the FS7 beats the C300mkII for most features. But there is a lot to be said for making a camera with certain restrictions on specs and then just making sure you have a robust, dependable user experience.
 
jshbckr said:
We get suckered into resolution, frame rates, etc... and on paper the FS7 beats the C300mkII for most features. But there is a lot to be said for making a camera with certain restrictions on specs and then just making sure you have a robust, dependable user experience.
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That, in a nutshell is the essence of their differences.
 
I always love how people post about how 'Canon camera just work' or 'Sony cameras have tons of problems'.
It reminds me of the Ford and Chevy debates. I had mechanics who worked for the city, swear to me that
Chevy's were awful and of all the fleet vehicles the city had, Chevy's were the ones that always needed repair.
Then I had other private mechanics tell me that Fords were the vehicles that were always in the shop.
Everyone has their own little 'sphere of the world' to draw on, but that is just one tiny piece of the pie.
My FS 700 has never had one single issue. But I can't extrapolate from that, that all FS 700's are rock solid.
And both times I've worked with the C300, I've had issues (I've still got iPhone video of one of them that I saved
in case the rental company wanted more info on what happened...the single screw holding the top handle literally broke.)
But that doesn't mean all C300's are 'camera's with issues' either. I bet there are a few lemons in every line (both
Sony and Canon) but taken as a whole, I would guess they are both pretty reliable.

As far as it goes, I bet the C300 Mark II will be great. To be honest, if I had the money, I would probably buy one.
I am expecting it to be just out of my price range though. What would be sweet would be able to afford both the C300
Mark II AND the FS 7. Now I'm just dreaming.......
 
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