C300: C300 MK II vs. C500 w/ 7Q+

G

Gabe Reuben

Member
There are so many camera options right now, it's totally overwhelming. I am curious as to what you guys think about the C300 MK II vs. C500 with a 7Q+. The main reason I ask is because B&H currently has a deal, $16K for C500/7Q+, which of course is the same as a bare bones C300 MK II.

How would you weigh the pros/cons between the two setups?
 
Look like the only major feature the C500 has over the C300.2 is 60P 4K raw. Perhaps that explains why Canon doesn't allow 60P 4K raw on the C300.2.
 
The C500/Odyssey7Q+ kit comes with media for the Odyssey plus some other accessory bits. So the C300 MK2 is actually more expensive once you kit it up to match.
 
A lot of votes for the C500 over C300 Mk II but that's because people here haven't used it. Soooo many improvements on the C300 Mark II.

-15 stop dynamic range with Log 2.
-Internal 10 bit 4:2:2 4K recording.
-Better build quality.
-Backlit buttons
-12 bit 2K/HD 444 internal recording
-Powerful configurable autofocus options.

C500 with Odyssey is a good solution, however for the same bucks, you would be making a mistake not going for the Mark II.
 
If you are getting a C500 with less hours used at around 8k or so, then grab it. Use it with the Odyssey. Anything around 12k and up is C300 Mark II territory. C300 II as the previous poster Doctor Wu has said, is capable of internal 4K recording with 15 stops dynamic range. That in itself is huge. The focus assist, even if you are using cinema lenses, is huge as it shows which way to turn and how much. For someone who is not a focus puller by profession, this is big.
 
I've shot pretty extensively with the C500/ 7Q combo. I would go for the C300 Mkii without a second thought. There is a reason the C500 prices have dropped so far so fast. It has the same dynamic range of C300- well, a little better when recording to Prores on 7Q. The biggest problem is the fan noise- the fan was never properly controlled and has always been a problem when using the additional outputs, ie: when using the 7Q. The image recorded on the 7Q is significantly better than the internal MXF file- hence the fan noise is real problem never satisfactorily addressed by Canon.

Internal, high bit rate recording is a definite plus.

Lack of high speed is an issue these days too.

And not a single producer ever went for Canon RAW- the files are too big- "we'll need about 120 TB of storage for this feature". Going from .rmf to DPX just doesn't happen these days on lower budget shoots. Any shoot with a budget goes Alexa XT Prores or Arri RAW without question. Unless the client demands something else.
 
Thanks for the input, Karl. I've definitely been convinced as to why the C500 is not a sound investment. I am considering taking out a sizable loan (for a one man business) and investing in a big camera purchase, amortizing over three years. C500 is obviously no longer a consideration. I suppose the C300 MK II is, but at that price point, there are so many other considerations. In my mind:

- FS7 with external recorder
- Used RED Scarlet/Epic package
- RED Raven whenever that rolls out
 
Canon also has some nice lease plans. Some 0% interest too. I bought my first C100 from Texas Media Systems on that lease.
 
klk said:
The biggest problem is the fan noise- the fan was never properly controlled and has always been a problem when using the additional outputs, ie: when using the 7Q. The image recorded on the 7Q is significantly better than the internal MXF file- hence the fan noise is real problem never satisfactorily addressed by Canon.
Click to expand...

I had heard that Canon added the feature to turn the fan off during recording with a firmware update. Is that not the case?
 
cpreston said:
I had heard that Canon added the feature to turn the fan off during recording with a firmware update. Is that not the case?
Click to expand...

Fan wasn't a big issue when I worked with C500/O7Q combo a couple of weeks ago. So maybe the firmware was upgraded to fix that?

In addition to what has already been said there's one more thing: 4K ProRes
Used C500/O7Q can get you 4K ProRes for under 10k. I have clients who will only accept 4K in ProRes because it works with their existing editing machines. H264 based codecs + RAW would require them to buy all new editing machines, I am told. If that is your deliverable, then the C500/O7Q combo stands out. Of course, you can always attach an O7Q to a C300mk2 as well, and get your 4K ProRes fix, at a bit more than 2 times the price. (Like the C500, the C300mk2 does not have baseband 4K/UHD out, so you are limited to Odyssey7Q/7Q+ or Shogun for ProRes at 4K/UHD resolutions.)
 
Gabe Reuben said:
Thanks for the input, Karl. I've definitely been convinced as to why the C500 is not a sound investment. I am considering taking out a sizable loan (for a one man business) and investing in a big camera purchase, amortizing over three years. C500 is obviously no longer a consideration. I suppose the C300 MK II is, but at that price point, there are so many other considerations. In my mind:

- FS7 with external recorder
- Used RED Scarlet/Epic package
- RED Raven whenever that rolls out
Click to expand...
The FS7 with the back unit and a 7Q+ is going to get you near the C300 MK II...getting involved with RED means you are going to be spending money on a somewhat on-going basis (registering, updates, etc) and who knows when the Raven shows up and how much additional equipment/add-ons you'll need to make it fully functional.....don't get me wrong, all are good cameras but you must look at the day-to-day functionality and cost to get the big picture.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
If you have $16,000 grand and it's between the C300II and the C500+recorder, please do the right thing and buy the C300II. So much more of a camera.
 
Don't know if the 7Q can record 4K prores out of the C500- that's a question for Mitch of CD. My understanding is that the 7Q cannot, where-as it can record 4K out of FS700 and FS7 via RAW to Prores. No idea about Shogun. I thought the Video Devices Pix E5 can record 4K prores out of C500, not positive though. The later 2014 firmware upgrade on the C500 did not fix the fan issue to my satisfaction.

Don't forsake dynamic range to save a couple of thousand- my opinion.

Reds are a funny thing. Owner ops can't say enough good things about Red and the workflow. Most of the producers I've worked with the past two years bypass the Reds completely- because they have to pay for the post workflow- transcoding- grading.

Put yourself in your client's shoes. Which camera do you want to hire/ rent for your production? The actual cost of the gear becomes irrelevant- the daily rate is more significant- and the daily rate of Red Dragons are pretty low right now.
 
klk said:
Don't know if the 7Q can record 4K prores out of the C500- that's a question for Mitch of CD...
Click to expand...
Not Mitch. But, yes, it can. (one has to buy a Canon Raw license)

AJA Ki Pro Quad can also record 4K ProRes out of C500. (not sure about licensing but KPQ is ~ $3,000 right now)
 
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