C200: c300 mark ii and C200 screens interchangeable?

krick

krick

Well-known member
Hi there,

I don't have a C200 and I was wondering if you can use the monitor of the C300 mark ii on the C200 and Vice versa?

I am not asking if you will have touchscreen on the c300 mark II, I am sure you won't and I am not so interested in that. But will you get an image, and will it be safe?

Thank you!
 
LM-V1 Touch Screen Monitor Supported on Canon C300 Mark II

LM-V1 Touch Screen Monitor Supported on Canon C300 Mark II

Yes, its safe to add the LM-V1 monitor to C300 Mark II.

The C300 Mark II Firmware needs to be updated to Version 1.1.01.100.

You can use the UN-5 cable that's provided with the C300 Mark II & C200, or purchase the longer UN-10 cable.

Audio will need to be handled through the 3.5mm stereo mini, or by adding the Canon MA-400 adapter.

CANON LM-V1 LCD MONITOR FOR C200 / C200B - 2417C001 $699

CANON UN-10 100CM UNIT CABLE $349



 
So ~$1200 to add touch PDAF to a camera that was originally $16K (can you use just audio from the original unit with the video folded shut? That'd save $500). In any case, not bad, really, which is essentially a hardware upgrade for a Canon: quite rare. Now $349 for a cable- are they going from some kind of record lol?
 
Terry Nixon said:
Yes, its safe to add the LM-V1 monitor to C300 Mark II.

The C300 Mark II Firmware needs to be updated to Version 1.1.01.100.

You can use the UN-5 cable that's provided with the C300 Mark II & C200, or purchase the longer UN-10 cable.

Audio will need to be handled through the 3.5mm stereo mini, or by adding the Canon MA-400 adapter.

CANON LM-V1 LCD MONITOR FOR C200 / C200B - 2417C001 $699

CANON UN-10 100CM UNIT CABLE $349



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Is there any downside to using the six for audio? Is it lower quality than the xlrs? I’ve seen a breakout cable which goes into the six and gives you 2 xlrs. Can you still control the channel volumes?
 
A friend just got the C200 so we did a few tests yesterday.
The C200 monitor seems to work well with the C300 Mk2.
The C200 will not work with the C300M2 monitor unit.

If you plug audio input into the mini-jack in front of the C300M2, you can control levels in the menu. You will not have phantom power I believe. I can run a wireless receiver into the mini audio input without problems. You won't be able to "ride" audio levels when recording however. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's how it works.
I am biased as I almost always work with an audio professional. They simply send a hop to my camera.

My thoughts on setup for the C300M2:
-I personally disdain the monitor unit- just an abortion of a design. The cold shoe is not nearly strong enough to keep from twisting under the weight of the proprietary cables to the body. Add XLR audio cables and the monitor unit rotates that much more. If you've ever used rental C300M2's I cannot believe how much the unit rotates.
-The small C300M2 monitor itself is actually pretty good. Wish it were detachable. With a separate loupe.
-mic preamps on the monitor unit are low quality. I had a Tascam DR70 for awhile, and the mic preamps were a world better than Canon's. I ran a shotgun and wireless lav direct into the camera only a couple of times, when we didn't have an audio pro on the shoot. I upgraded the Tascam to a Sound Devices Pre-mix, and personally plan to use the audio in the monitor unit strictly as a backup. I have also run line outputs from the Premix into the mini audio port and it works fine. But I'm not an audio guy so take that into consideration.
-touch to focus works great on the C300M2 with the C200 monitor. The monitor unit is also very light and should be easy to rig.
-For 1/2 the cost of the MA-400 adapter you can get the DR70 or for $50 more you can get the Zoom F4, or many other audio recorders that have better mic preamps. It is one more thing to rig and keep track of, but the results are well worth it. If you care about audio. Or if your clients care about audio. If you must have XLRs on the camera body you can sell the C300M2 and just get the C200.
-if I get the LM-V1 was planning to mount an arm/extension to the camera baseplate, and not the top of the camera, to minimize vibrations from tapping the screen. If not the baseplate then utilize some type of 15mm rod mount. The idea is to get the attachment point as close to the base of the camera as possible- at least that's my theory. Have to confirm it's better in practice. Maybe it won't make a difference, as the ML-V1 needed only a very light touch to adjust focus point.

Either way autofocus for video is a very new thing for me- learning to make it reliable. Right now face detection with tracking only works on some shots (like an interview- talent approaching camera, etc), need to find that reliable autofocus work flow that works for me. I suspect a touch screen will be a big improvement to practical, on set work flow.
 
klk said:
-For 1/2 the cost of the MA-400 adapter you can get the DR70 or for $50 more you can get the Zoom F4, or many other audio recorders that have better mic preamps. It is one more thing to rig and keep track of, but the results are well worth it. If you care about audio. Or if your clients care about audio. If you must have XLRs on the camera body you can sell the C300M2 and just get the C200.
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Thanks for all of the great detail and info. A couple of questions though:

1.) Are you saying that the C200 preamps are better than the C300 Mark II preamps?

2.) I’ve considered getting the PreMix but was concerned about having to manage dual system sound again (after doing it long ago with a DSLR). Is it possible to start and stop recording on the PreMix automatically when the C300 Mark II starts and stops? That way the audio files would at least sync up a little easier, right?
 
mizzar said:
Thanks for all of the great detail and info. A couple of questions though:

1.) Are you saying that the C200 preamps are better than the C300 Mark II preamps?

2.) I’ve considered getting the PreMix but was concerned about having to manage dual system sound again (after doing it long ago with a DSLR). Is it possible to start and stop recording on the PreMix automatically when the C300 Mark II starts and stops? That way the audio files would at least sync up a little easier, right?
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1. didn't do an audio test on the C200. I imagine the mic preamps are identical or similar.
I'm just saying life is so much easier when the camera body has full size XLR inputs. Usually the sound mixer feeds a line level input to the camera, so camera mic preamps aren't such a big deal. I just dislike the monitor unit on the C300M2, also C500 and C300. C700 and C200 have better ergonomics in my opinion. I used to have a C500 and Odyssey 7, so internal XLRs, in camera RAW recording of the C200 is just a better design.

2. Yes- the MixPre-6 has HDMI TC in (mini HDMI) and a record trigger function. Never used it, but it's on Sound Devices' website.
 
The MixPre units will sound considerably better than any camera ever made, almost all cameras have mediocre to bad sound quality although the Canons sound among the best. I wouldn't bother for interviews, I just use camera sound and it's fine but if you are shooting narrative, you should have a sound mixer anyway, who will most probably be using a Sound Devices recorder. In my experience, the C200 and C300 MKII sound about the same.
 
puredrifting said:
The MixPre units will sound considerably better than any camera ever made, almost all cameras have mediocre to bad sound quality although the Canons sound among the best. I wouldn't bother for interviews, I just use camera sound and it's fine but if you are shooting narrative, you should have a sound mixer anyway, who will most probably be using a Sound Devices recorder. In my experience, the C200 and C300 MKII sound about the same.
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Thanks for the info! Yeah, just doing interviews at the moment. Still considered upgrading my audio but I mostly shoot alone so streamline workflow for one person is important.
 
It comes down to will your client notice, care, or pay more for better sound? I am very sound focused but I learned years ago, I will give them competent but not killer sound. If they want killer sound, they give me budget to hire a sound mixer. If not, they get what they get, it's good enough. Too many people in our business are bad business people and buy $10k worth of mics and recorders for one man banding it. Terrible business decision, they should be paying off consumer debt with that money, not wasting it on clients who won't pay extra for it. Just MHO.
 
klk said:
A friend just got the C200 so we did a few tests yesterday.
-mic preamps on the monitor unit are low quality. I had a Tascam DR70 for awhile, and the mic preamps were a world better than Canon's. I ran a shotgun and wireless lav direct into the camera only a couple of times, when we didn't have an audio pro on the shoot. I upgraded the Tascam to a Sound Devices Pre-mix, and personally plan to use the audio in the monitor unit strictly as a backup. I have also run line outputs from the Premix into the mini audio port and it works fine. But I'm not an audio guy so take that into consideration.
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I'm an audio guy (in addition to video, including writing audio DSP software), and have found the C300 II mic preamps to be pretty good, recording with Schoeps CMC641, Schoeps CMIT5U, and Audix SCX1-HC directly in via Mogami cables. I've done recording in the exact same studio location into a Zoom F4 for dialog and haven't noticed any improvement in sound quality over the C300 II. I can hear an improvement in sound, including dialog, when using a Sound Devices USBPre2 (and will probably replace the Zoom F4 with a Sound Devices MixPre6 at some point).

One issue with the C300 II is if you simply drop clips into Premiere or FCPX, you'll get 4 tracks of audio, including the internal mics, which of course don't sound very good. So, you need to remove those 2 extra tracks before you can really hear the XLR preamp quality (remove 3 tracks if recording mono).

Under what conditions/tests did you find the C300 II preamps sounding below par?
 
jcs said:
I'm an audio guy (in addition to video, including writing audio DSP software), and have found the C300 II mic preamps to be pretty good, recording with Schoeps CMC641, Schoeps CMIT5U, and Audix SCX1-HC directly in via Mogami cables. I've done recording in the exact same studio location into a Zoom F4 for dialog and haven't noticed any improvement in sound quality over the C300 II. I can hear an improvement in sound, including dialog, when using a Sound Devices USBPre2 (and will probably replace the Zoom F4 with a Sound Devices MixPre6 at some point).


I’not an audio guy . I have a C300 M2 and use Schoeps CMC 641 and CMITU 5 regularly with my camera.I get great sound recorded on the camera and frequently also record to a sound devices 633. Preactically speaking I find no difference between the two which is not to say that there isn’t a difference, but if there is its so small as to be a non issue. If I played back the same clip recorderd to camera and Sound devices , I doubt any one could identify a clip by sound in a blind test.
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puredrifting said:
Y'all have some expensive mics for not being professional sound mixers! ;-)
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True. I’ve had these mics for years and they hevae been worth it. I”ve been on some doc projects to remote locations flying solo and sound is important. Sound gear has a much longer life span than camera gear, its not likely that next year we’ll all want to run out and buy a new microphone because the ‘4K’ microphone we are using has been made obsolete by the latest greatest ‘8K ‘ microphone.
When you buy a quality mic, you only cry once....
 
puredrifting said:
Y'all have some expensive mics for not being professional sound mixers! ;-)
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I own a lot more audio gear than a lot of audio guys. It started out with me wanting/needing to have a COMPLETE gear package- Camera, Lighting and Audio and grew from there. Not every audio guy has gear, just like not every camera guy has a camera. There were times when your first(or second or fifth) call wasn't available and you needed someone, but what if they didn't have gear...? I'd say 90%-95% of the time on my shoots, audio is using my gear, even though they own their own package.

And my philosophy has always been to get good/great gear. I don't want the gear to be an excuse or the limiting factor(I know that's usually me). In fact, I rent some of my gear out to some of my audio guys sometimes when they need extra stuff on their own shoots.
 
I'm right there with you guys. But if clients won't pay for it, AudioTechnica AT875r and Countryman B6 are ran into camera, no champagne sound gear if they won't even pay for it as a line item. Purely a business decision with me. I love good gear too but as the old book title used to read, "It's a business first and a creative outlet second" (Yes, I had a book by this title back in the 90s about video production).
 
puredrifting said:
Y'all have some expensive mics for not being professional sound mixers! ;-)
Click to expand...

Expensive mics? Lol the C300 II was $16,000! How much for the Canon 24-70 F2.8 II, 70-200 F2.8 II lenses? About the same price as the Schoeps CMC641 + CMIT5U. The $499 Audix SCX-1 HC is very close in performance to the Schoeps CMC641. Professional sound mixing is just another skill, as with creating sounds effects for games. Even if hiring someone else to do sound, it's good to know how to do it yourself when necessary, as well as managing the sound folks in a larger production. Lately enjoying working with ambisonic recording and mixing: 3D audio with HRTFs through headphones is pretty cool (especially when coupled with head tracking). The Sennheiser Ambeo mic works well: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/microphone-3d-audio-ambeo-vr-mic . Might have to try this guy out too: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/in-ear-headphones-3d-audio-ambeo-smart-headset

For post mixing 4-channel ambisonic recordings, including mixing to 5.1 (or 7.1, 9.2, any number of channels you want!), HRTF stereo (headphones), as well as converting mono and stereo sounds to 3D, http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ works amazing well, especially considering it's free (was willing to pay for something better, but the paid stuff wasn't better).

While the "standard" Sony 7506 works fine for location monitoring (lightweight, comfortable, cheap), I now use Focal Listens https://www.amazon.com/Focal-Listen-Closed-Over-Ear-Headphones/dp/B01H2NDPZY for critical post mixing (closed back) and customized Stax electrostatics (open back). I use some older Tannoy's through a USBPre2 for desktop speaker monitoring. Listening to final mixes on iPhone speaker & headphones also important these days, as much of content consumption is on mobile.

It doesn't really take that much more work for audio competency in addition to video production skills... https://www.gearslutz.com/ is a super helpful for those wanting to learn more about audio production and tools.
 
I used a 416 when I did my audio test. When I brought the clips into Premiere and listened to takes side by side- yes there was a clear difference to my ears. The noise floor was higher in camera, plus the upper frequencies were not as distinct. And yes, with the C300M2 you have to kill the in camera audio tracks in post- and solo each track when comparing in post.

I will be the first to admit if I didn't do a side by side the sound in camera wouldn't be that bad- certainly acceptable for most clients. I happen to have one corporate client who is crazy (over the top gear head) who requires we use certain Schoeps microphones on his shoots (his video department has the gear he likes- we sometimes rent as it's not always available to us). So yes, it all goes back to the requirements of the job- who pays for what, and we happen to have a super stickler for a client, so you become sensitive to certain things- beyond what's considered normal.

But going back to the OP, one could use the Canon LM-V1 on the C300M2, and not necessarily have to purchase the MA-400 audio unit depending on your particular production/ audio workflow. I'd rather buy good sound gear than the MA-400 which would likely have a much shorter life cycle. Sound gear in general seems to have a much longer usable life span than camera gear.
 
When you guys are feeding the camera from a mixer, are you running LINE or MIC? I always go LINE when receiving from a mixer or wireless hop on all my cameras, be it a Vari, 55 or 300. And 99% of the time, the camera tracks are the "hero" tracks and the mixer/recorder is just back-up/transcription(we record ISO WAV's and a 2ch MP3 mix).
 
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