C300/500 price drop

RatLabProductions said:
I see the F5 as the only camera on the horizon that will compete with the C300 for the 1080p small/mid level TV/doc market. The C300 has had a years start and I know many production houses and broadcasters (at least in Canada) that have already decided on the C300.

I can't believe that no one else has bothered to nail the broadcast market with a large chip camcorder. It will have took over a year for Sony to bring out competition.
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Silly Sony.

I remember the official launch for the F3 here in Melbourne, and after everyone had been 'oh'-ing and 'ah'-ing at the specs and the image quality, and then they announced the 35Mbps 4:2:0 internal codec - and the entire room went 'huh?'.

All they had to do was include their standard 50Mbps 4:2:2 XDCAM codec from their shoulder mount cameras and they would have wrapped up that entire market in one fell sweep (crummy ergonomics and all), they would have cornered the large-sensor broadcast market so completely there wouldn't have been much space for Canon to mosey on in with the C300 and cut their lunch the way it has.

Oh well, at least they appear to have learnt their lesson.
 
Frankly speaking when the C300 had its hollywood launch, we never heard about the broadcast area. However, it has become the first choice for broadcast. I guess other companies underestimated the broadcast market?

Sony is going to make the F5 available in Feb. Even if everything is fine, people will need to try it and feel comfortable. It will take some time before it becomes acceptable by the masses. Canon has got a nice headstart with the current C300 package.

RatLabProductions said:
I see the F5 as the only camera on the horizon that will compete with the C300 for the 1080p small/mid level TV/doc market. The C300 has had a years start and I know many production houses and broadcasters (at least in Canada) that have already decided on the C300.

I can't believe that no one else has bothered to nail the broadcast market with a large chip camcorder. It will have took over a year for Sony to bring out competition.
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indiawilds said:
Frankly speaking when the C300 had its hollywood launch, we never heard about the broadcast area. However, it has become the first choice for broadcast. I guess other companies underestimated the broadcast market?
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I think this is true. I think many assumed broadcast wouldn't want to give up their traditional 2/3" camcorders, which were used prolifically in all aspects of television production; travel & docs, sure, but also narrative shows and TV movies, not just news as people often forget. There are a lot of cinema-style b4 mount lenses sitting on shelves and collecting dust these days. But easy access to S35 style picture quality combined with the form factor, lens mount, cost, and workflow made broadcast embrace the C300 very, very quickly - and I don't think many productions will go back to 2/3" camcorders in the foreseeable future, or maybe even ever.
 
James0b57 said:
Anyways, despite most feeling the C300 is over priced, there is no other real head on competition to the C300. Sure, the FS100/700, F3, and Scarlet can all steal sales away, but there is no other 1.) Broadcast quality internal codec + 2.) Small ergonomic form +3.) Low noise high ISO + 3.) true 1080p + 4.) long battery life + 5.) xlr audio + 6.) 12stop DR, camera out there. If a C300 is what you need, then it is you only choice.
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You're right, however if you're willing to give up #1, the C100 and a Ninja2 sounds like it will be almost half the cost and give extremely similar if not identical results. Unless there are some hidden gotchas, and there very well may be, Canon seems to be its own biggest competitor.
 
Fahnon said:
You're right, however if you're willing to give up #1, the C100 and a Ninja2 sounds like it will be almost half the cost and give extremely similar if not identical results. Unless there are some hidden gotchas, and there very well may be, Canon seems to be its own biggest competitor.
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True - but if you give up #1, you'll give up #2. I know the ninja is small, but having it attached will make handheld work more difficult. Not necessarily worth it for everybody, obviously - just comes down to individual needs.
 
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But total weighty of the ninja plus C100 will be roughly the same as the C300. the got you is that the stripped C100 body only has auto iris adjustment, to control iris manually you need the grip, but the C300 is much more capable with just the base body, as I have seen Brian shoot several times. Loved what he did for our project.
 
philiplipetz said:
But total weighty of the ninja plus C100 will be roughly the same as the C300. the got you is that the stripped C100 body only has auto iris adjustment, to control iris manually you need the grip, but the C300 is much more capable with just the base body, as I have seen Brian shoot several times. Loved what he did for our project.
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Without the grip no manual iris on the C100!?
 
I am at a loss for words. If that is true, then that is one of the silliest things I have ever heard from any camera with a price tag over $2k and interchangeable lens system dedicated to the EF lens mount. The EF lenses don't have the external iris ring. (hands thrown in air)

Well, I am not much a fan of 24mbs AVCHD, and the external recorder is a bit of an issue. One more thing to go wrong, more bulk, and the more convuluted gear looks the more attention it draws to itself.
 
cowpunk52 said:
True - but if you give up #1, you'll give up #2. I know the ninja is small, but having it attached will make handheld work more difficult. Not necessarily worth it for everybody, obviously - just comes down to individual needs.
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Exactly. Part of the allure of these 'CinEos' cameras, are the form factor. Start tacking on gear, and might as well get an F3 with 10bit. The F3 is sadly a continuation of the PD150 or HVX200 style cameras, which I never fully appreciated, even when they were the only handheld body shape out there.
 
Grug said:
Silly Sony.

I remember the official launch for the F3 here in Melbourne, and after everyone had been 'oh'-ing and 'ah'-ing at the specs and the image quality, and then they announced the 35Mbps 4:2:0 internal codec - and the entire room went 'huh?'.

All they had to do was include their standard 50Mbps 4:2:2 XDCAM codec from their shoulder mount cameras and they would have wrapped up that entire market in one fell sweep (crummy ergonomics and all), they would have cornered the large-sensor broadcast market so completely there wouldn't have been much space for Canon to mosey on in with the C300 and cut their lunch the way it has.

Oh well, at least they appear to have learnt their lesson.
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In hindsight, it's always easy to spot your mistakes. But companies take a chance like this all the time. The Sony marketing guys probably left out the better codec to protect the broadcast cameras. Nothing evil about that, it's just business. But when you do that, you do that at your own peril because it can leave an opening for a competitor to exploit. In this case, Canon sneaked in that opening. And at that time (around 2010), Sony probably had no idea Canon was secretly starting up a Cinema Imaging business.

Another explanation might be they were just rushed for time. The F3 design looks like a souped up PD150, so their main goal might have been to get to market as soon as possible with an "affordable" S35 camera. Sony showed a prototype of the F3 under glass at NAB 2010, so they must have been working on this camera at least 1 year or more earlier. So back in 2009, the 35 Mbps codec may have been good enough. By 2011, it no longer was and by that time, development of the F5/55 was already under way.
 
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I just got an email from Canon a few hours ago. There is a $1,000 rebate on C300 OS & PL. Also a continuation of the 0% financing to 12/31. Perhaps the rebate also to then? I will re-read to clarify.
 
James0b57 said:
I am at a loss for words. If that is true, then that is one of the silliest things I have ever heard from any camera with a price tag over $2k and interchangeable lens system dedicated to the EF lens mount. The EF lenses don't have the external iris ring. (hands thrown in air)

Well, I am not much a fan of 24mbs AVCHD, and the external recorder is a bit of an issue. One more thing to go wrong, more bulk, and the more convuluted gear looks the more attention it draws to itself.
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And no EV compensation.
 
The C300 $1000 instant rebate and 0% 2 year $1 lease runs through Dec 31 2012.

Monthly is $625 a month.

Getting the lease done at the last minute could be tricky after Dec 21.

Canon takes about 4 hours to approve both personal and business leases.

unadog said:
I just got an email from Canon a few hours ago. There is a $1,000 rebate on C300 OS & PL. Also a continuation of the 0% financing to 12/31. Perhaps the rebate also to then? I will re-read to clarify.
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I think Terry mis-wrote.....the leases are only for business, not for individual....so if you are a shooter, chances are you have formed a company for tax purposes alone....and that works for the leases.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
 
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