C200: C200 in 2019?

[Dan Pears]

Hi,

I find that pretty much all of my work at the moment requires interstate travel and flying with close to 3kg of V-Lock batteries in my hand luggage is getting pretty annoying. I know that Hawk Woods have their mini V Lok, but this is still close to 500g per battery and it will be costly to off-load my IDX and Swit batteries and replace with a few grand in Hawk Woods.

I'm tempted to upgrade to the C500 ii, however for the work I do (pretty exclusively mildly cinematic corporate documentary) I question whether the C200 with Canon Raw Lite would be just as capable. The data rate doesn't worry me too much, coming from Red and Blackmagic, however I am concerned by 256GB being the largest compatible card (mind you, the Canon list seems pretty appallingly short link). That seems ridiculous with the availability of much higher capacities.

Has there been any update on using larger 512GB cards? I'd read that the Wise 512 cards work, but is this reliable for commercial work?

I read in a comment by, I think, Brett Danton (Jaguar F Pace video) that the C200 sensor was very similar to the C700 sensor as far as image quality. Outside of full frame, how does the C200 image stack up to the C700, such as the standard 35 C700? I could buy 2 C200s for considerably cheaper than 1 C500 ii (for which I'd still need to consider a b-cam).

Users and speculators, what is the vibe on the C200 in 2019? I know that there will be new stuff announced at NAB, but I'm pretty booked out for the rest of the year so am considering my available options to lighten the load (for perspective, would be ditching a 2.5kg UMP with 3kg of v-locks). While a Canon C series wouldn't be my first choice for a feature, I think the Canon look is perfect for light commercial/corporate for the brands I work with (vibrant, aspirational etc).


Many thanks in advance!

 

[NorBro]

You'd be hard-pressed to see a major difference (especially if everything is going online) between the C200 and C700/C700FF. Almost no one here will provide you feedback about the C700/C700FF because most haven't used it...most of the world actually hasn't used it (or so it appears).

I've seen people write they are using 512GB cards, maybe the Angelbirds, but I'm not positive. If so, there are now 1TB that may work too.

The C200 is a great camera and if the C200B ever drops another $1K to $3,999 I would probably buy one as I really like CRL.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

I just read that a few people are having success with the 1TB Cfast cards from Freetail. Still seems kind of risky to me.

Alternatively, you could an external recorder. SolidPods are currently backordered but if you do order right now, they're throwing in a reader deck for free (just happened to see this on their site earlier today).

 

[NorBro]

P.S. I just checked a LensRentals order (something was telling me to) I placed a few weeks ago - which included the C200B - and I totally forgot that I went for the 512GB Sandisk cards that time and not the 256GB ones I always rent.

I filled these cards up continuously over 3 days with no problems. So Sandisk's (not really much of a surprise) 512GB cards work too.

 

[Michel]

Just buy the c200 as your bcam now and see if it works out for you as a A or B cam.
Personally i have shot only on 256 cards and haven't found the 30min time limit a problem but your workflow may differ.
picture wise you'll be quit pleased with any c200,300II,500II,700 .

 

[Dan Pears]

P.S. I just checked a LensRentals order (something was telling me to) I placed a few weeks ago - which included the C200B - and I totally forgot that I went for the 512GB Sandisk cards that time and not the 256GB ones I always rent.

I filled these cards up continuously over 3 days with no problems. So Sandisk's (not really much of a surprise) 512GB cards work too.

View attachment 136843

Thanks NorBro. The card capacity is one of my biggest drawbacks - an hour of Raw Lite per card would be fine even for interviews. Does the camera allow for continuous recording across both card slots?

I just read that a few people are having success with the 1TB Cfast cards from Freetail. Still seems kind of risky to me.

Alternatively, you could an external recorder. SolidPods are currently backordered but if you do order right now, they're throwing in a reader deck for free (just happened to see this on their site earlier today).

Thanks QuickHitRecord, that's actually a really interesting solution. I'll read into it more, but from a thread here it seems like a really successful solution. If you can record proxies to the SD card at least there's redundancy for some protection.

Just buy the c200 as your bcam now and see if it works out for you as a A or B cam.
Personally i have shot only on 256 cards and haven't found the 30min time limit a problem but your workflow may differ.
picture wise you'll be quit pleased with any c200,300II,500II,700 .

If I do go ahead with it there will be some overlap with the Ursa Mini Pro anyway so I'll have plenty of time to test the two against each other for my needs. But ideally if I go for it I'll just go for it and sell the UMP.

 

[puredrifting]

Hey Dan:

I've used our C200 over the past year and a half roughly to shoot a LOT of footage for our five part Docu Series, pretty much exclusively with CRL. We've shot about 160TB to date. I've never even tried the 512GB cards. I too shoot a lot of interviews and personally, I find it very easy to switch cards during interviews. The 256GB cards give you 34 minutes of recording time in CRL, not 30 minutes. Also, to clarify, there is only one CFast slot so there is no continuous recording in RAW, although you can with the dual SD cards in XF-AVC or MP4. I've timed myself and I can change the CFast card in less than :05 so I have not seeked out 512 - 1TB CFast cards as we own half a dozen of the 256GB cards and it's a simple matter to change cards during a pause, question from the interviewer and if the interviewer is me, I just do it while I am re-capping their last reply and asking the next question. A lot of people freak out that the C200 only has the single CFast card slot but in practice, it's been bulletproof for us, have never had a card issue, recording issue, etc. YMMV and I do like the two slots of the C500 MKII but that camera costs 2-3 times as much so I won't be buying it in the near future as my clients don't care and wouldn't pay more for me to use the C500 MKII instead so what's the business case to get one?

The CRL is a joy to edit with, it's not so huge as to be unworkable, but it's definitely more flexible in post than Prores or XF-AVC. IMHO, the C200 is a very good camera that punches well above it's weight. I have shot the C700/FF versions twice, although only tests at Canon USA, not on actual shoots. IMHO, the C700/FF only look a little better than the C200 CRL. The 5.9K imager downsampled to DCI RAW offers bit more detail and smoothness that the C200 lacks but the differences seemed subtle to me. I wasn't able to shoot the C200 side by side against the C700/FF but these are my impressions. The C500 MKII uses the same sensor as the C700FF so it should look basically identical but in a smaller, cheaper package. For me personally, I would rather own a C200 and C200B insterad of just a C500 MKII, I like having two cameras, a spare camera opens up a lot of possibilities for two angles, you have a spare in case your main camera goes down, you could mount a C200B easily on a gimbal or drone, bring on a second shooter and not have to rent another camera, etc.

 

[NorBro]

Thanks NorBro. The card capacity is one of my biggest drawbacks - an hour of Raw Lite per card would be fine even for interviews. Does the camera allow for continuous recording across both card slots?

There's only one CFast card slot, but you can capture lower-quality options on the SD cards while you record CRL.

 

[indiawilds]

I see no problems with the C200 CRL image for high end work. I guess it would be easy to start with 2 C200s. Recoup some/full investment and then sell off one C200 and buy a C500 II. If I would have been booked like you then I would have bought the C500II in a heartbeat.

Personally I am planning to get a C500 II. However, mostly likely I will time the purchase for a major project which I am planning.

 

[puredrifting]

There's only one CFast card slot, but you can capture lower-quality options on the SD cards while you record CRL.

Really low quality proxy 35Mbps. It would be better than nothing in the event of a CFast card going down, find for web but compared to CRL, not in the same neighborhood even. That is one cool thing the C500 MKII does, it allows you to shoot CRL 2K at 250Mbps, it'll look great. Wish they would put that into firmware for the C200 but they won't.

 

[NorBro]

That is one cool thing the C500 MKII does, it allows you to shoot CRL 2K at 250Mbps, it'll look great. Wish they would put that into firmware for the C200 but they won't.

That would be so fantastic.

As you know, the UMP does that (various resolutions) with its own BRAW.

 

[puredrifting]

That would be so fantastic.

As you know, the UMP does that (various resolutions) with its own BRAW.

Yep, just had the UMP G2 for a few weeks, interesting camera in comparison to the C200.
I've given up on Canon doing any fixes or additions to the firmware in the C200, it's done. Stick a fork in it.

 

[mrtreve]

I say go for it. It's great for travel. The batteries are small and last hours. The CRL footage is great, I'd say the next real improvement will come from their sensors rather than the codec.

I had a friend who bought a 512GB Angelbird which didn't play nice with the C200, but they (Angelbird) kindly exchanged for 2 x 265GB cards which work fine.

It'd be nice to get a firmware update to make use of 512GB/1TB cards. You can usually deal with the data after the fact, but it's nice to have long record times if you need it.

BTW, external SSDs make backing up raw so much more practical on the day. I recommend the Sandisk Extreme Portable SSDs.

 

[DLD]

EgoDisk 512 GB should work too. Under $600.

 

[cpreston]

Really low quality proxy 35Mbps. It would be better than nothing in the event of a CFast card going down, find for web but compared to CRL, not in the same neighborhood even. That is one cool thing the C500 MKII does, it allows you to shoot CRL 2K at 250Mbps, it'll look great. Wish they would put that into firmware for the C200 but they won't.

The proxy's are basically the same quality as the C100 footage. In fact, I have clients who still want C100 level bit rates so I just give them the proxy footage. It isn't as good as the c300 level 50 Mbps footage. It looks like the C500 II is ditching the 50Mbps long GOP footage which is too bad because that was about perfect for long events or interviews.

 

[rob norton]

Hi,

I find that pretty much all of my work at the moment requires interstate travel and flying with close to 3kg of V-Lock batteries in my hand luggage is getting pretty annoying. I know that Hawk Woods have their mini V Lok, but this is still close to 500g per battery and it will be costly to off-load my IDX and Swit batteries and replace with a few grand in Hawk Woods.

I'm tempted to upgrade to the C500 ii, however for the work I do (pretty exclusively mildly cinematic corporate documentary) I question whether the C200 with Canon Raw Lite would be just as capable. The data rate doesn't worry me too much, coming from Red and Blackmagic, however I am concerned by 256GB being the largest compatible card (mind you, the Canon list seems pretty appallingly short link). That seems ridiculous with the availability of much higher capacities.

Has there been any update on using larger 512GB cards? I'd read that the Wise 512 cards work, but is this reliable for commercial work?

I read in a comment by, I think, Brett Danton (Jaguar F Pace video) that the C200 sensor was very similar to the C700 sensor as far as image quality. Outside of full frame, how does the C200 image stack up to the C700, such as the standard 35 C700? I could buy 2 C200s for considerably cheaper than 1 C500 ii (for which I'd still need to consider a b-cam).

Users and speculators, what is the vibe on the C200 in 2019? I know that there will be new stuff announced at NAB, but I'm pretty booked out for the rest of the year so am considering my available options to lighten the load (for perspective, would be ditching a 2.5kg UMP with 3kg of v-locks). While a Canon C series wouldn't be my first choice for a feature, I think the Canon look is perfect for light commercial/corporate for the brands I work with (vibrant, aspirational etc).


Many thanks in advance!

Dan just save yourself the severe stress of air travel and send any Brisbane work my way!

I'm only joking but I do own a lighting package (and c200) if you pull the trigger on the c200 and need to do more involved multicam stuff.

 

[rob norton]

Another thing to add, while it's not that new anymore, I feel like the c200 has really come into its own recently. For example, NLEs are fine with CRL (I'm pretty sure, don't work with PP anymore). For hardware, the nearly released core swx nano batteries will be a fantastic solution if you don't want to travel with v-locks but still want to power your camera and a couple of accessories.

It sounds like you'll mostly be shooting CRL. There have been cases where the 8 bit mp4/mxf files have helped me - under 15 minutes to transfer to a client or I've actually just let them keep the dirt cheap SD cards and added them to an invoice. I'm only mentioning because I don't know of any BM users that shoot in the "video" format over the "film" option but it's definitely possible to get a decent WYSIWYG image.

I've used the camera with sigma cine zooms (recording 1080p prores via an atomos) as a B cam to an alexa mini with cooke lenses and despite the difference seen on the monitors, reports were that the two cut together very well.

 

[Dan Pears]

Dan just save yourself the severe stress of air travel and send any Brisbane work my way!

I'm only joking but I do own a lighting package (and c200) if you pull the trigger on the c200 and need to do more involved multicam stuff.

Ha sorry, Brisbane work is my problem. After ten years living in Melbourne I've moved back to Brisbane with the family and most of my clients are still in Melbourne and Sydney.

Mind you, looking at your website I'll hit you up if I ever do get any local work and need some drone.


What NLE are you using for the C200? How does it go in Resolve? I'd read conflicting things re: raw camera adjustments.

 

[Dan Pears]

I say go for it. It's great for travel. The batteries are small and last hours. The CRL footage is great, I'd say the next real improvement will come from their sensors rather than the codec.

I had a friend who bought a 512GB Angelbird which didn't play nice with the C200, but they (Angelbird) kindly exchanged for 2 x 265GB cards which work fine.

It'd be nice to get a firmware update to make use of 512GB/1TB cards. You can usually deal with the data after the fact, but it's nice to have long record times if you need it.

BTW, external SSDs make backing up raw so much more practical on the day. I recommend the Sandisk Extreme Portable SSDs.

Thanks for the heads up re: Angelbird 512GB cards, good to know.

I agree regarding a firmware update, but I can live with 30ish minutes per card or the aforementioned SSD solutions.

I'll check into the Sandisk Extreme Portable SSD. Currently copying 256GB from the card to USB C is pretty fast, so not too worried about data transfer thankfully.

 

[Dan Pears]

Hey Dan:

I've used our C200 over the past year and a half roughly to shoot a LOT of footage for our five part Docu Series, pretty much exclusively with CRL. We've shot about 160TB to date. I've never even tried the 512GB cards. I too shoot a lot of interviews and personally, I find it very easy to switch cards during interviews. The 256GB cards give you 34 minutes of recording time in CRL, not 30 minutes. Also, to clarify, there is only one CFast slot so there is no continuous recording in RAW, although you can with the dual SD cards in XF-AVC or MP4. I've timed myself and I can change the CFast card in less than :05 so I have not seeked out 512 - 1TB CFast cards as we own half a dozen of the 256GB cards and it's a simple matter to change cards during a pause, question from the interviewer and if the interviewer is me, I just do it while I am re-capping their last reply and asking the next question. A lot of people freak out that the C200 only has the single CFast card slot but in practice, it's been bulletproof for us, have never had a card issue, recording issue, etc. YMMV and I do like the two slots of the C500 MKII but that camera costs 2-3 times as much so I won't be buying it in the near future as my clients don't care and wouldn't pay more for me to use the C500 MKII instead so what's the business case to get one?

The CRL is a joy to edit with, it's not so huge as to be unworkable, but it's definitely more flexible in post than Prores or XF-AVC. IMHO, the C200 is a very good camera that punches well above it's weight. I have shot the C700/FF versions twice, although only tests at Canon USA, not on actual shoots. IMHO, the C700/FF only look a little better than the C200 CRL. The 5.9K imager downsampled to DCI RAW offers bit more detail and smoothness that the C200 lacks but the differences seemed subtle to me. I wasn't able to shoot the C200 side by side against the C700/FF but these are my impressions. The C500 MKII uses the same sensor as the C700FF so it should look basically identical but in a smaller, cheaper package. For me personally, I would rather own a C200 and C200B insterad of just a C500 MKII, I like having two cameras, a spare camera opens up a lot of possibilities for two angles, you have a spare in case your main camera goes down, you could mount a C200B easily on a gimbal or drone, bring on a second shooter and not have to rent another camera, etc.

Thanks for the thorough feedback on your experience with the camera. I've always enjoyed your signature on the forum, and I'm currently weighing up whether the cost of trading the UMP to get a new C200 will contribute positively to my business or just get me out of carrying a few KGs...