C100: C100 upgrade to BMD P4k/6k?

Barry1908 said:
Interesting. Havnt read much in the S1, I’m assuming it can adapt to EF glass?
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I have the S1 and I love it. I use it with my EF glass.

Downsides vs GH5: 150Mbps long-GOP is the max quality codec, not the 400Mbps all-I codec of the GH5. Whatever, it's good enough for me. It also crops to APS-C for 4K60p while the GH5 shoots 4K60p without a crop.

Awesome low-light performance and dynamic range, far better than the GH5 in both regards.

I'm considering selling the S1 to get an R5 or R6 or A7SIII because: the S1 doesn't have good video AF. And I would like to have no crop for 4K60p. Otherwise, i would definitely keep it (and i still might). But those cameras are a bit more expensive
 
James0b57 said:
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Your gonna have to explain this one to me?
 
Barry1908 said:
I’m after some opinions on the decision to upgrade from my trusty c100. Now, I would love a big shoulder mounted c300mk3, but after thinking about needs vs wants, I’m not sure I need that level of gear for my clients and don’t love the idea of repayments hanging over my head... the BMD pocket option seems ok, apart from no DPAF I would gain 4K, and great images (Not 8 bit).

My clients don’t hire me for my kit (small to multinational corporates) but they have inquired about 4K and I know I’m going to get caught out with 1080 at some point ( I’m evening asking my interstate freelancers to shoot 4K if possible so I have multiple camera angles in the edit). I guess my question is apart from having to mess around with screw on NDs and no grip relocation. I’m not sure if I can adjust audio as easily too, but all up what will I lose by scaling down essentially ? Is this a bad business decision to save money now but risk the appearance of a less professional setup? ( I have my c100 shoulder mounted with grip replicator and evf atm so it looks the part )
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From everything you said:
1) C100 user
2) client don't hire you for your kit
3) you need/want 4K in the relatively near term future
4) you want a "professional looking setup"
5) you want easy to handle audio
6) don't want to mess around with NDs

....it sounds like the Canon C200 is just what you want. Or perhaps a cheap secondhand C300mk2 if you can snag a bargain.
 
I cant imagine doing my typical shoot with a BM pocket, with no decent ND or audio or mutiangle viewable screen.

Used FS7 might be a thing or EVA1 or BM bigger camera, probably the latter is the best $4g non af option?

Or C300iii for decent AF at the next price class.

Dunno where the C200 sits
 
NorBro said:
No point in considering a 4K/30p FS5 unless it's less than $1000, IMO. (Or you're interested in a RAW workflow via an eternal component.)

Even if you personally never use 60p, its resale value will be higher as many people will never consider a camera with less than 4K/60p moving forward in life.
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For some buyers a lack of 4K 60fps is a deal breaker, but for many others it won't be.
Just look at how long Canon sold cameras without FHD 60fps!!!
4K 30fps will stay relevant for low/mid budget productions for a very long time yet.

And the FS5 is around $2K ish on eBay, which I feel is an absolute steal!! The only thing which holds back the FS5 from being a truly amazing buy for a S35 camcorder, is the fact FS7 prices are themselves coming down so low! Gets hard to argue for a FS5 is a FS7 is less than a couple of grand extra to buy.

Barry1908 said:
The C200 would be nice but I feel I’m wasting money on 8 bit if I’m shooting 8 bit in another 5 years I’ll be pissed
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Don't be pissed.

I bet there will still be people working on paid shoots doing 1080 8bit in 5yrs from now

Barry1908 said:
Oh I didnt even realise the fs5 is only 4k/30!
One other camera to consider, one of my clients supplied me with some EVA1 footage earlier in the year, it was Vlog and seemed the closest to the canon look or rather looking very good out of the box. I think the EVA/Gh5s could be worth stretching to the GH5S would cover me for the rare low light needs i still have.
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It is a pity that the Panasonic EVA1 never became a popular pick with clients, as I think the EVA1 came along too late, and the FS7 had already stolen the market.

The EVA1 has had a lot of great firmware updates too, including getting 4K 60fps 10bit that it didn't initially have at launch:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01...0-firmware-update-adds-4k60p-h-265-recording/

And yes, a GH5S would be a great pairing for low light! (the GH5S is even arguably better than an a7Smk2 in lowlight)

You could also consider cameras like a Panasonic G85 as a great C Cam at a dirt dirt cheap price, or a Panasonic G9 for its amazing IBIS and good AF. (and the G9 has 4K 10bit internal too!)
 
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IronFilm said:
For some buyers a lack of 4K 60fps is a deal breaker, but for many others it won't be.
Just look at how long Canon sold cameras without FHD 60fps!!!
4K 30fps will stay relevant for low/mid budget productions for a very long time yet.
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It's the opposite. For some buyers it won't be but for many it will be.

Can't compare the old world with the new world.

It's moot anyway because if one gets the camera for 1000 bucks or so, he or she will probably keep it forever anyway.
 
NorBro said:
It's the opposite. For some buyers it won't be but for many it will be.

Can't compare the old world with the new world.
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Am expecting there won't be a massive massive radical shift from the 1080 era in terms of how many people could live without 1080 60fps, to the 4K era and then how many people will be able to live without 4K 60fps being a core deal breaker
 
I shot a (satelite) show that was 4k50 - but they prodco rented the cameras.

I dont think one can get a camera for any situation - unless you have a hard booking.
 
IronFilm said:
Am expecting there won't be a massive massive radical shift from the 1080 era in terms of how many people could live without 1080 60fps, to the 4K era and then how many people will be able to live without 4K 60fps being a core deal breaker
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Maybe, but everyone lived without video AF and now some can't live without it. Obviously, there are some types of shoots that won't need it. But if your client becomes accustomed to having it at their disposal because other people have it, you may need it.

But certainly, I look at the number of times I used HD 180fps on the GH5 as an indicator of how much I need framerates above 60fps. So, for me, about 1-2x per year. But maybe I'm under-using it
 
I would add the cost of a properly matche OLPF to any BM camera purchase consideration With higher resolutions moire is less of a problem, but when it does appear it is far more of an IQ problem on motion cameras than on still cameras.
 
IronFilm said:
Am expecting there won't be a massive massive radical shift from the 1080 era in terms of how many people could live without 1080 60fps, to the 4K era and then how many people will be able to live without 4K 60fps being a core deal breaker
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I don't know what goes on in New Zealand or other countries, but 4K/60p is pretty much now mandatory in the United States if you're going to build and then try to sell a camera here.

As we know, even 5 years ago Canon's C300 Mark II was left in the dust by the FS7.
 
NorBro said:
I don't know what goes on in New Zealand or other countries, but 4K/60p is pretty much now mandatory in the United States if you're going to build and then try to sell a camera here.

As we know, even 5 years ago Canon's C300 Mark II was left in the dust by the FS7.
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Launching a new camera to market for sale is a different question to when discussing what camera to buy.

And another two key points in the C300mk2's failure was: late to market, and priced significantly higher initially than the FS7
 
I don't doubt that price was a part of it for some people, but even $8,000 is still out-of-reach for many individual freelancers today in 2020.

It's not like the difference between a Pocket and a FS7.

In the grand scheme of things, production companies looking at an $8,000 camera weren't immediately writing off a $16,000 camera because the difference in house/company money toward these investments for the business is nickels and dimes.
 
ahalpert said:
...So, for me, about 1-2x per year. But maybe I'm under-using it
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No, you're not. Almost all of the slow motion I see in production, in general, isn't needed and is superfluous.
Too many people abuse it and use it as a crutch to fill up screen time by slow motioning things that shouldn't be slow motion.
Thank you for not contributing to that ;-)
 
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