C100: C100 upgrade to BMD P4k/6k?

B

Barry1908

Active member
I’m after some opinions on the decision to upgrade from my trusty c100. Now, I would love a big shoulder mounted c300mk3, but after thinking about needs vs wants, I’m not sure I need that level of gear for my clients and don’t love the idea of repayments hanging over my head... the BMD pocket option seems ok, apart from no DPAF I would gain 4K, and great images (Not 8 bit).

My clients don’t hire me for my kit (small to multinational corporates) but they have inquired about 4K and I know I’m going to get caught out with 1080 at some point ( I’m evening asking my interstate freelancers to shoot 4K if possible so I have multiple camera angles in the edit). I guess my question is apart from having to mess around with screw on NDs and no grip relocation. I’m not sure if I can adjust audio as easily too, but all up what will I lose by scaling down essentially ? Is this a bad business decision to save money now but risk the appearance of a less professional setup? ( I have my c100 shoulder mounted with grip replicator and evf atm so it looks the part ) I’m not looking at deciding this week, but by the end of the year I would like to be 4K, my new mbp 16” can handle h265 if there’s any recommendations there too ?

Thoughts??
 
If my clients didn't care what camera I used, I would use a BMD Pocket 6K. The images are gorgeous. I have some concerns about reliability, but other dvxusers have convinced me it's ok.

If my clients didn't care what BRAND I used but had a reaction to the LOOK of the camera, I would use a BMD Ursa Mini Pro G2. Even more powerful than the Pocket 6K in numerous ways. "Looks" like a video camera and is suitable for shoulder-mounting. More expensive, but not as much as a C300mk3.

Have you considered the FS7? You can get it second-hand for $3k or so. A fair share of my clients request a specific camera (usually it was the FS7 or the C300mk2). So, after renting them for a couple years when needed, I bought an FS7 recently.

The FS7 does not have my favorite color science and it doesn't gave good AF. But it shoots 4K 60fps and it comes ready for shoulder mounting with an offset EVF-style set-up.

The C300mk2 will probably come down in price on the used market soon if you don't need 4K 60fps and you prefer Canon. As of now, it's a touch more pricey than the FS7.

Then, of course, there's the upcoming Canon R5 and Sony a7S2 successor if you want good AF and IBIS and you don't mind shooting in a DSLR-style body.
 
You can build any of these small handheld photo-looking cameras up with cages and EVFs and shoulder rigs and rods and clamps all kinds of parts and wires hanging off of them if you needed to look "professional". (Get a mattebox and a few wires that are different colors and wrap them around your rig to make it look important. People are impressed by shiny things and colors, no one will know the difference.)

Once anyone sees the quality upgrade over the C100 they will quickly forget what a camera is supposed to look like.

You can easily control audio on the touch screen, but not when you can't see it. (Small preamps with knobs are still best for these cameras.)

Screw-on ND filters will be a pain but there's always a compromise.
 
I always say buyer beware with BM or buyer know what you're buying.
I have 2 BM cameras. I kept one because it has a global shutter.
The other one is too old to hardly be worth even selling.
Reliability is certainly always a concern with BM, however I haven't had any issues with mine.
You will need to put an IR cut filter on. I've never seen a BM camera that didn't need it. You'll definitely need IR cut if you stop down 3 stops or more.
I know someone who had 3 pocket 6ks and sold all of them because the were a pain to color match even though they were the same model. They tend to lean yellow/green.
When they sing, BM sings very well. But they're quirky.
If it were me I'd go for the pocket 6k, but your needs could be different.
I'm assuming you looked at used C200's etc and have your reasons for wanting BM.
 
What about a used Sony FS-5?

Determining whether you need continuous AF or not will really help narrow down your options.

A used Panasonic G7 or GX85 is probably the cheapest UHD option.

Other mirrorless cameras:
Fuji XT4
Panasonic GH5/S
Sony A6400
 
I upgraded to an FS5 MKI from a C100 and I'm very happy with my decision. 4K (albeit 8 bit), 4:2:2 10bit HD and a great form factor for around $2.5K used these days. The internal variable ND is great. If you're a solo shooter like me it's the best small form factor cinema camera out there (that doesn't require a franken-rig) IMO. Just keep in mind you're not going to get great color out of the box like Canon (especially skin tones) but with a little time in post you can get it to where you want...
 
Stills2HDConvert said:
I always say buyer beware with BM or buyer know what you're buying.
I have 2 BM cameras. I kept one because it has a global shutter.
The other one is too old to hardly be worth even selling.
Reliability is certainly always a concern with BM, however I haven't had any issues with mine.
You will need to put an IR cut filter on. I've never seen a BM camera that didn't need it. You'll definitely need IR cut if you stop down 3 stops or more.
I know someone who had 3 pocket 6ks and sold all of them because the were a pain to color match even though they were the same model. They tend to lean yellow/green.
When they sing, BM sings very well. But they're quirky.
If it were me I'd go for the pocket 6k, but your needs could be different.
I'm assuming you looked at used C200's etc and have your reasons for wanting BM.
Click to expand...

Do you mean any ND variable or not will need IRCut filters? I’ve had internal on the C100 but still have a vari for my b-cam the 80D
 
The C200 would be nice but I feel I’m wasting money on 8 bit if I’m shooting 8 bit in another 5 years I’ll be pissed, I guess there is obv raw, I’m going from 25mb/s on the C100 so I would have to charge more for storage
 
Hmm I really loathe the Sony look but I don’t think my clients will care, maybe fs52 is worth renting at least...
 
No point in considering a 4K/30p FS5 unless it's less than $1000, IMO. (Or you're interested in a RAW workflow via an eternal component.)

Even if you personally never use 60p, its resale value will be higher as many people will never consider a camera with less than 4K/60p moving forward in life.

[ARRIs are very special niche items, and still...there's about 40 of them on eBay right now.]
 
I thought the new BMD cameras didn't need IR cut filters anymore but I don't own one.

What lenses are you working with?
 
All cameras require IR cut filters. They are built into every body, but some companies have stronger ones than others.

Part of that matte box point made earlier...IR cut filters, NDs, diffusion...by the time Hollywood is ready to shoot, the light is going through a few pieces of glass. (Of course not always.)
 
NorBro said:
No point in considering a 4K/30p FS5 unless it's less than $1000, IMO. (Or you're interested in a RAW workflow via an eternal component.)

Even if you personally never use 60p, its resale value will be higher as many people will never consider a camera with less than 4K/60p moving forward in life.

[ARRIs are very special niche items, and still...there's about 40 of them on eBay right now.]
Click to expand...


Oh I didnt even realise the fs5 is only 4k/30!
One other camera to consider, one of my clients supplied me with some EVA1 footage earlier in the year, it was Vlog and seemed the closest to the canon look or rather looking very good out of the box. I think the EVA/Gh5s could be worth stretching to the GH5S would cover me for the rare low light needs i still have.
 
Should throw the S1 and S1H into the mix too then...S1 is now $2K with the same V-Log as the EVA1 (not sure if every retailer is including the upgrade for free).

Also - if it matters - keep in mind that the V-Log L in the GH5S is different.
 
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Your 4K/HFR needs depend on your workflow. I rarely if ever leave the HD delivery sphere so S & Q mode in the FS5 and the ability to shoot 4K for reframe in HD works fine for me...
 
I wouldn't hesitate. You'll just have to rig it up more than the C100, external battery, screw on ND's. The Pocket 4k is also great if you just need 4k. It is also cheaper.

A Panasonic S1 or GH5S is also an option. The Panasonic S1 probably has the cleanest image on the market right now for the price.
 
sgttom said:
I wouldn't hesitate. You'll just have to rig it up more than the C100, external battery, screw on ND's. The Pocket 4k is also great if you just need 4k. It is also cheaper.

A Panasonic S1 or GH5S is also an option. The Panasonic S1 probably has the cleanest image on the market right now for the price.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Havnt read much in the S1, I’m assuming it can adapt to EF glass?
 
49825009187_5f80bbd735_c.jpg
 
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