C100: C100 for a Red MX

O

orafik

Member
OK, first let me start by saying I am a photog turned videographer. Benn shooting video for about 2 years and own 2 FS100, a Canon XF300 and most recently a C100 with a Ninja 2. I haven't shot much with the C100 as I am currently shooting mostly events and the pair of fs100s work great. I am in the process of starting to shoot music videos and hopefully short low budget movies. I have an opportunity to trade my C100, Ninja 2 and a few lenses plus cash for a Red MX, ready to shoot kit. I know about the extra horsepower and storage issues, but just speaking in terms of quality, will the Red be worth the extra cost versus my C100?

Thanks for any advice
 
i would say heck no, the c100 is newer, more refined tech than the R1mx, far simpler and lighter and reliable and flexible in every way except codec. then again i have to claim bias being that im a c100 shooter
 
Owning both a red and a c100 here, i would use the c100, then spend the extra money on art direction, lighting, camera movement, etc.
 
I agree with Darren, the cmos chip on the c100 is much newer, light sensitive.
Though the Red is a nice camera, the footage will need to be graded a little more to yield pleasing pictures,
and you'll have to worry about additional add-ons like monitors, cards, and batteries. Red MX is a lot more power hungry.
 
Former RED owner here. My take is that the RED shooting in 4kHD at 320 ISO is a little less noisy and possibly a little sharper than the C100 at it's sweet spot. That said, just about every other aspect of using our C100/Ninja is easier and better looking.

I know it's not what you're asking, but the clients always loved the 'look' of the RED up on a big tripod. The C100 doesn't have that.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
I know it's not what you're asking, but the clients always loved the 'look' of the RED up on a big tripod. The C100 doesn't have that.
Click to expand...

May be use a bigger matte box and 19 inch rails? And add some redundant accessories just for show... :)

When Bose first launched in India, they had a demo with big box speakers. After people went wow with the sound, they removed the box speaker covers and revealed that the actual speaker was very small and they had indeed placed some dummy covers.
 
The C100 has a better image and much better ergonomics, BUT...

The MX rents better. It does require a bigger crew to operate, but it's a fine camera in some ways. If you must have 4k for a client I can see it, but at 1080p the C100 is sharper.
 
orafik said:
OK, first let me start by saying I am a photog turned videographer. Benn shooting video for about 2 years and own 2 FS100, a Canon XF300 and most recently a C100 with a Ninja 2. I haven't shot much with the C100 as I am currently shooting mostly events and the pair of fs100s work great. I am in the process of starting to shoot music videos and hopefully short low budget movies. I have an opportunity to trade my C100, Ninja 2 and a few lenses plus cash for a Red MX, ready to shoot kit. I know about the extra horsepower and storage issues, but just speaking in terms of quality, will the Red be worth the extra cost versus my C100?

Thanks for any advice
Click to expand...

Don't do it. Not worth the extra money or hassle. If these are paying jobs with low to no budgets you are much better off with the C100 package you have. If they are well budgeted jobs then you can afford to rent an Epic and shoot with that if they "require" 4K. The C100 in Clog would be a great B camera for those shoots.
 
Thank you all for the advice and after that advice and some more research, I am staying with the c100. Everything I do is paying but very low budget for right now. I know I would have been hired for some projects just cause I had a Red, but there is not that many yet and like it was suggested, I could always rent if the budget is there
 
I agree. People are advertising their RED epic plus tons of gear at throw away prices. In that scenario why buy more RED Gear? Better to rent when a client demands 4k/5k or a RED.
 
Just a random thought - have you alternatively considered selling the two FS100s and getting a C300? So you'd have the option of a 2 camera setup (C300/C100), you'd have some of the flexibility of the FS100 (timelapse, 720p50, etc) in the C300, and you'd have that 'badge' of a C300 owner/shooter with its 'higher end/broadcast' connotations.

I was in a very similar position at the start of the year - just settled down with the C100, so impressed, I considered hocking my EX1Rs to buy a C300. Yes, I did consider Scarlet, but it was easy to pass on that (client research can reveal some interesting anomalies!). Also considered F5, and passed on that too. It depends on what your clients are asking you to do, and how your kit factors into your marketing. EX1s had a solid reputation and in my market, it spoke volumes to new clients about where you were at and what you did. The Sony F3 almost achieved that same mythic status, but the C300 managed to trounce it.


orafik said:
I know I would have been hired for some projects just cause I had a Red, but there is not that many yet and like it was suggested, I could always rent if the budget is there
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I talked to some of my existing clients ,and some at the other end of the sales funnel, about how they would feel if I were offering 4K, cinematic look, 'Red' cameras et al. Those that knew about the Red cameras weren't as excited as I hoped, as they perceived it as being overly expensive and overly complicated. Those that didn't, weren't really bothered - just wanted to see nice pictures well edited. They'd trust that the right camera would be used for the job. The couple of people who were very keen weren't actually the sort of client that would want to pay for it. So - you may get more adventurous jobs with a Scarlet, but you'd end up earning less money and spending more time chasing payment.

Ten years ago, hardly anyone owned a camera. Everything was rented in. This 'owning' lark is a new business model, and whilst it suits our end of the market particularly well, it can backfire if you go up the value chain. A DSLR, a few GoPros, even a BMCC can be purchased and it can do a handful of jobs a year to earn its keep. Invest in Scarlet or F5 (even a C300 to a certain extent), that camera had better be out there week in and week out earning its keep. Which may mean having to rent it out too.

So, erm, rather long 'TL;DR' way of saying 'congrats on sticking with the C100' though I'd prefer C100/C300 rather than two FS100s. YMMV.
 
The Red Scarlet is a really nice camera and I've used one belonging to a company I freelance for. I bought the C100 and they looked at the Red and thought why did we buy this? It's now for sale with the idea of going with an FS700 so they can use it on every job and not just niche jobs for clients. 4k is lovely but it was a pain to work with in our particular market.
 
This is a mistake. C100 has no slow motion capability. RED does and damn great too. The 4k works just fine in premiere. Everyone here has no experience working with RED otherwise the would have mentioned RAW. RAW alone is worth the money. Chrome Keying is easier and less noisey. The extra resolution is priceless. Scaling an image up 300% and having it look amazing is ridiculously valuable and saves time. You can effectively shoot a medium shot and use it as a closeup which is incredible for faking multicam shoots for interviews.

IF you have the opportunity to do this DO IT. Besides, based on price alone C100's are easy to come by. REDS are not. The firmware update for the MX was more recent than the update for C100. Better image quality? How many major motion pictures were shot on the MX? Oscar nominated films? If you wanna look like a pro... Get pro gear.

I have three RED and all of them have paid for themselves and I only rent my gear out if I'm going with it. Anything you can do with the C100, you can do with the RED. You cannot do this the other way around. Besides, if you're considering this trade, you may not have the cash to just upgrade when you feel like it.

Beside, our market is only going to become more saturated as technology grows. Clients are going to chose you based on your skill and based on what you've already shown the capability to produce. Not what you could hypothetically can do if they throw more cash at the project. They don't even want to hear that here in LA and this is where BS was born. They don't want you figuring out a new camera on their shoot/dollar either. Trust me.

And finally, when you rent it... and its the best footage you've ever shot (and it will be). What then? Go blow 11k on another used camera? An even older camera? And you'll always know that you've now spent 11k that could have gone into a perssonal project.

I know for a fact you wont come across another RED owner offering a trade like that and you know why? Because It's a downgrade and the guy offering the trade is ok with downgrading. No other RED owner will even consider it because they know at one point their RED MX was a 70k investment. 70k!!!! Traded for a 5k camera? And you're asking if YOU should do it!?! There's no question.
 
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hisonni said:
No other RED owner will even consider it because they know at one point their RED MX was a 70k investment. 70k!!!! Traded for a 5k camera? And you're asking if YOU should do it!?! There's no question.
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A Red ONE Mx doesn't cost 70k now. They seem to be selling quite cheaply on ebay.
 
hisonni said:
This is a mistake. C100 has no slow motion capability. RED does and damn great too. The 4k works just fine in premiere. Everyone here has no experience working with RED otherwise the would have mentioned RAW. RAW alone is worth the money. Chrome Keying is easier and less noisey. The extra resolution is priceless. Scaling an image up 300% and having it look amazing is ridiculously valuable and saves time. You can effectively shoot a medium shot and use it as a closeup which is incredible for faking multicam shoots for interviews.

IF you have the opportunity to do this DO IT. Besides, based on price alone C100's are easy to come by. REDS are not. The firmware update for the MX was more recent than the update for C100. Better image quality? How many major motion pictures were shot on the MX? Oscar nominated films? If you wanna look like a pro... Get pro gear.

I have three RED and all of them have paid for themselves and I only rent my gear out if I'm going with it. Anything you can do with the C100, you can do with the RED. You cannot do this the other way around. Besides, if you're considering this trade, you may not have the cash to just upgrade when you feel like it.

Beside, our market is only going to become more saturated as technology grows. Clients are going to chose you based on your skill and based on what you've already shown the capability to produce. Not what you could hypothetically can do if they throw more cash at the project. They don't even want to hear that here in LA and this is where BS was born. They don't want you figuring out a new camera on their shoot/dollar either. Trust me.

And finally, when you rent it... and its the best footage you've ever shot (and it will be). What then? Go blow 11k on another used camera? An even older camera? And you'll always know that you've now spent 11k that could have gone into a perssonal project.

I know for a fact you wont come across another RED owner offering a trade like that and you know why? Because It's a downgrade and the guy offering the trade is ok with downgrading. No other RED owner will even consider it because they know at one point their RED MX was a 70k investment. 70k!!!! Traded for a 5k camera? And you're asking if YOU should do it!?! There's no question.
Click to expand...

Said the guy who posted this....

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...it****&p=1986368660&highlight=#post1986368660

And this......

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...de-LA)&p=1986367272&highlight=#post1986367272

and this.....

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...de-LA)&p=1986367269&highlight=#post1986367269
 
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