C300: Buying a used C300 MK II

E

edmelvins

Member
Hi fellas!

I'm considering buying a C300 MK II package but I can't seem to find a used one for sale anywhere. I'm also thinking of getting 4 Canon L primes along with two zooms.
I shoot primarily narrative and commercial but would like to get into more docs, which is why I'm skipping the RED.
How is autofocus with the L primes? I wonder if I should just get manual Zeiss lenses along with the zooms.

How do you deal with your EVF situation? Is the hood from Zacuto for the monitor good enough for operating?

Thanks folks!
 
The camera is $12,000 new. It was $16,000 prior to the recent promotion/price drop. It makes little sense for someone to sell a fairly recent buy for less than $10,000. It makes little sense for someone to pay more than $10,000.

Now, if you want 4K and don't mind manual lenses or a slightly used camera, you might consider FS7 (one of which is currently available on this very site).
 
If you're just getting started I would say you can't go wrong with the a few of the Canon ef zooms to start. The standard set of 16-35mm (Or 17-55mm), 24-70mm (or 24-105), 70-200mm. That covers the range. Primes are a situation of taste and operation. Some of the Zeiss ZE primes are a little tricky to work with on the C300 line. I find their often too short to use a follow focus. The zeiss also don't match the canon very well for color. Canon produces much warmer glass than zeiss.

Operating wise, check out your local store or rental house and build a rig that suites your content demands and shooting style. Here are my two go to setups.


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DLD said:
The camera is $12,000 new. It was $16,000 prior to the recent promotion/price drop. It makes little sense for someone to sell a fairly recent buy for less than $10,000. It makes little sense for someone to pay more than $10,000.

Now, if you want 4K and don't mind manual lenses or a slightly used camera, you might consider FS7 (one of which is currently available on this very site).
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought so. There's a couple on sale on e-bay but they're both asking for $11k which is pretty close to brand new price.
I'm definitely staying away from the Sonys though. I'm quite set on buying the C300.

jm.gardiner said:
If you're just getting started I would say you can't go wrong with the a few of the Canon ef zooms to start. The standard set of 16-35mm (Or 17-55mm), 24-70mm (or 24-105), 70-200mm. That covers the range. Primes are a situation of taste and operation. Some of the Zeiss ZE primes are a little tricky to work with on the C300 line. I find their often too short to use a follow focus. The zeiss also don't match the canon very well for color. Canon produces much warmer glass than zeiss.

Operating wise, check out your local store or rental house and build a rig that suites your content demands and shooting style. Here are my two go to setups.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics!

I plan on getting the 24 1.4L, 35 1.4L, 50 1.2L, 85 1.2L and then 16-35 with 70-200.
The idea is to be able to still work with primes without losing the AF feature because I will be solo-operating most of the time anyway.
I'd love to run V-mounts as you are but the new A60 batteries run quite a while so I'll be content with that for now.

How often are you hired to do narrative on the canon since most people opt for RED nowadays?
 
Those lenses will certainly cover your needs. I would only suggest waiting on the 16-35 2.8, it's a bit soft and there's a mk3 version coming in the near future to replace it. The 16-35mm 4IS is sharper by comparison.

I do a couple of narratives a year, often hired for me, not my camera. If there's a budget I always push to get an Arri and Dragon, more often than not we're saving money by going with my camera kit. I'm comfortable with this camera in a narrative situation and for smaller crewed films I think it makes a lot of sense. Runs all day on just a few batteries. Thick codec, but not as heavy as red or arri. Good low light. I have a few directors who like to do long takes and "go right back up" and the mk2 can handle that, so they're big fans now.

https://vimeo.com/165626540

Lens mount swap and lack of decent high speed are the two main weaknesses, but for your standard comedy or drama it's a rock solid choice. Diffuse the glass though, camera's too sharp!
 
hey john, would you say your vimeo reel is all shot on the C300 mii or mix with other cameras?

what are your go to diffusion? black pro mist? what other filters do you use? and since you are based in LA, do you think the varicam LT is slowly picking up in the rental market and narrative/tv world?
 
The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM gives you a lot of lens for the buck and will cover that wide end you need. It's an good all-around run and gun lens and the images are very good. The 24-70mm is one lens that works great with the C300 Mark II AF system, as do all the primes you are considering. Matt Powoll, DP who shot "Cartel Land," recommends the 17-55mm, as well. Here's his setup(s):
https://youtu.be/8CfUpegGbfY
 
I just picked up the 17-55mm for a job that's taking me to Africa and I'm limited to only two bags. I was initially very hesitant, but after playing with it for about a week I'm really starting to dig it.

Reel wise, the current cut is mostly C300mk2, C500 and C300 with some Red Epic and I think just one or two Amira shots. If you have specific questions about any shots feel free to email me (jm.gardiner@gmail.com). My go to lens diffusion is black promist, hollywood black magic or classic promist when the lighting calls for it. In my opinion all the Japanese camera makers' cameras are too sharp for cinema use, they have to be diffused if you want to get away from that video look.

Varicam was very intrigueing at first, the 35 had some great launch videos and one of the high end Aussie DP's made a great looking camera test video. I really wanted to like the new varicam LT, but I find my self scratching my head at a lot of comparison videos that have been posted about it. This guy has some indepth videos on it https://vimeo.com/benmeredithfilms I just disagree with the aesthetic he favors. I haven't seen anything from the camera that has impressed me. The color especially looks off, it looks like it has a pink/green biased. Specs wise the mk2 and LT are pretty close, the LT has the higher fps in crop mode, but the mk2 has less compression across the board. The low light is practically tied, if you're using Log1 on the mk2. I know one person who's used the LT here in LA, but I haven't been on any shoots with it or had anyone request it over the mk2. In my world it's either Canon, Arri or Red. With the occasional F55/FS7.
 
I plan on getting the 24 1.4L, 35 1.4L, 50 1.2L, 85 1.2L and then 16-35 with 70-200.
Click to expand...


Ed, can you hold off for a month so you'll at least know what cameras are coming down the pike after the IBC conference in Sept?

And considering the amount money you're thinking of laying out of glass, maybe spend a day or two working with everything you're considering and then coming up with a first-round-buy, second-round-buy, just-rent list of lenses?

Perhaps get the lenses from one of the mailorder/online rental places that seem to do a good job with still lens rental.

Or since you're in San Francisco, maybe you could convince Videofax or Chater Camera to let you pay an in-the-building rental fee to use one of their cameras and a bunch of their lenses for a day when they're fairly quiet. Do you prefer the Canon still on cinema primes? What about the Zeiss & Leica options? Will a couple good zooms and perhaps one or two primes cover you day in and day out, so then you could just rent primes on an as needed basis?

I say this as a guy who's finding people getting a lot of good and corporate work done with zooms and doing less work with primes. EF doc zooms I see used a lot: EF- Canon 17-55 and 70-200 (and some 24-105).


Chater Camera in Berkeley
http://chatercamera.com

Videofax in San Francisco
http://www.videofax.com

Maybe Studio B in Berkeley (fine place, fewer lenses IIRC than Chater and Videotex)
http://studiobcamerarentals.com/camera-lens-rentals/

Will be really interested in learning what you decide to do. Good luck!
 
jm.gardiner said:
Those lenses will certainly cover your needs. I would only suggest waiting on the 16-35 2.8, it's a bit soft and there's a mk3 version coming in the near future to replace it. The 16-35mm 4IS is sharper by comparison.

I do a couple of narratives a year, often hired for me, not my camera. If there's a budget I always push to get an Arri and Dragon, more often than not we're saving money by going with my camera kit. I'm comfortable with this camera in a narrative situation and for smaller crewed films I think it makes a lot of sense. Runs all day on just a few batteries. Thick codec, but not as heavy as red or arri. Good low light. I have a few directors who like to do long takes and "go right back up" and the mk2 can handle that, so they're big fans now.

https://vimeo.com/165626540

Lens mount swap and lack of decent high speed are the two main weaknesses, but for your standard comedy or drama it's a rock solid choice. Diffuse the glass though, camera's too sharp!
Click to expand...

Great reel! Thanks for sharing! I really much prefer Canon's color science compared to the FS7. It is quite warm though.

Yeah, no high speed option was a bummer but I think I can live with it as most of us do.

Thanks again for your input! I'll definitely get several diffusion filters.

BudRcok said:
The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM gives you a lot of lens for the buck and will cover that wide end you need. It's an good all-around run and gun lens and the images are very good. The 24-70mm is one lens that works great with the C300 Mark II AF system, as do all the primes you are considering. Matt Powoll, DP who shot "Cartel Land," recommends the 17-55mm, as well. Here's his setup(s):
https://youtu.be/8CfUpegGbfY
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link! I loved Cartel Land so it's great hearing what he has to say about the camera. I'd love to own the 17-55 but the problem is I have a 1D Mk. IV for my photography and I'd like to be able to use all my lenses on both platforms so for now I'm considering the 16-35 f/4IS. Hopefully the new version will be out soon as John mentioned.

Jim Feeley said:


Ed, can you hold off for a month so you'll at least know what cameras are coming down the pike after the IBC conference in Sept?

And considering the amount money you're thinking of laying out of glass, maybe spend a day or two working with everything you're considering and then coming up with a first-round-buy, second-round-buy, just-rent list of lenses?

Perhaps get the lenses from one of the mailorder/online rental places that seem to do a good job with still lens rental.

Or since you're in San Francisco, maybe you could convince Videofax or Chater Camera to let you pay an in-the-building rental fee to use one of their cameras and a bunch of their lenses for a day when they're fairly quiet. Do you prefer the Canon still on cinema primes? What about the Zeiss & Leica options? Will a couple good zooms and perhaps one or two primes cover you day in and day out, so then you could just rent primes on an as needed basis?

I say this as a guy who's finding people getting a lot of good and corporate work done with zooms and doing less work with primes. EF doc zooms I see used a lot: EF- Canon 17-55 and 70-200 (and some 24-105).


Chater Camera in Berkeley
http://chatercamera.com

Videofax in San Francisco
http://www.videofax.com

Maybe Studio B in Berkeley (fine place, fewer lenses IIRC than Chater and Videotex)
http://studiobcamerarentals.com/camera-lens-rentals/

Will be really interested in learning what you decide to do. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thank you Jim! I have worked with both Chater and Videofax before so I think that's a solid plan. The IBC thing is also a concern to me as I don't want to rush into a decision before knowing all the facts. So most likely I will wait for that.
If I could survive just by shooting narratives, I would. So I tend to lean towards cine lenses and I'd love to own Leica C lenses/Cookes one day and I'm used to shooting primes so that's why I wanted to go with them.
But I think your idea of just having a couple of primes while zooms cover the rest is also feasible.

Do you personally own a C300 as well? What have your experience been with the camera?
 
The C300 mkII is still pretty new. And the specs are still very competitive. So it might be hard to find great deals used.
4k at 10bit 4:2:2 around 400mbps at up to 30fps.
2k at 12bit 4:4:4 up to 60fps

Those are both internal recording specs. It will also record proxies to SD cards simultaneously. If you like the warm canon colorimetry and you are already invested into the Canon lenses, it is a great camera for documentary. 2k 12bit 444 for high-end docs is crazy! Plus, 60p is just fine for most scenarious. Specially, as you say, if you're using for documentary work. Of course, you are limited by the CFast 2 storage limits. But at $12k, it is a great value, in my opinion. It can also be used in scripted narrative productions, as others have pointed out.

I think waiting can be prudent. At the same time, these specs aren't gong to be obsolete any time soon.

I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the form factor, but some people love it!
 
Do you personally own a C300 as well? What have your experience been with the camera?
Click to expand...

Yes. It's a nice-enough camera. Easy to get a decent image out of it. Good-enough audio. Not great timecode (but with a little TC box on it, it's fine). And since I'm left-eye dominant, I find shoulder-mounted cameras kinda awkward...that makes me more willing to tolerate the C300's handheld ergonomics. Plus, it works well on a monopod. I mainly use EF zooms on my C300 (esp. the 17-55), mainly for doc stuff. Borrow or rent primes from time to time. Not sure what camera I'd buy next.

But when wearing my location audio and producer hats, I also end up working with various DPs and cameras. I like the look of the Alexa and Amira a lot (duh). RED has become a lot easier to work with (though timecode is still kind of a pain). Sony FS7 is pretty nice, too, esp when the optional recording back is attached (so TC and sync are accessible). Lots of good cameras today. I'd say the C300mkII is one of them...though I'd say that more quickly if it was less expensive...though compared to 10 years ago everything is free.

You know, when we get to work with the Canon 17-120 "CINE-Servo" lens, we're pretty happy; can get lots done with a single great-looking lens. But at $26,000 it's not a purchase I'm going to make. Same with the Fujinon Cabrio and ARRI Alura... I'm not going to buy those (and have only been on set with them a couple times each), but they're a reasonably priced rental item. PL mount.

I'd love to own the 17-55 but the problem is I have a 1D Mk. IV for my photography and I'd like to be able to use all my lenses on both platforms
Click to expand...
That makes sense, but then you could buy a Canon refurbished 17-55 2.8 with one-year warranty for $634... takes a bit of sting out of a non-fullframe purchase perhaps?
http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/ef-s-17-55-f-28-is-usm-refurbished
 
What have your experience been with the camera?

We've had the MkII since March 2016. I have to say the image/color science is superb. Whether you need the EOS look or the light airy Alexa feel. Clients love it. Very forgiving for quick setups - really shines when you start sourcing your lighting -
great skintones -
we bought the xc-10 as well.
 
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After the pricedrop to 12K USD, the price of used C300Mark II has to be much less than that or people will buy new. Why will someone sell at 8K or so and suffer heavy losses. Unless it is a distress sale or damaged item, I don't think at this point of time one would find used C300MarkII at much lower prices. I believe that one should buy cameras which can make money now. So by the time next year there is another price drop or if later this year there is an announcement of a new camera, one doesn't to panic as the investment would have given its returns.

Given the quick turn around clients expect, and producer breathing down the neck of the DP in many situations to see the files, canon colour science often saves the day.
 
I've really appreciated reading this thread. After a lot of testing, I'm on the cusp of purchasing a c300 mkii and in the final phase of clarification. To that end, @jm.gardiner:

jm.gardiner said:
Primes are a situation of taste and operation. Some of the Zeiss ZE primes are a little tricky to work with on the C300 line. I find their often too short to use a follow focus. The zeiss also don't match the canon very well for color. Canon produces much warmer glass than zeiss.

Operating wise, check out your local store or rental house and build a rig that suites your content demands and shooting style.
Click to expand...

Could you speak a little bit more to the difficulty with using a follow focus these still lenses? What follow focus are you using? I have a set of cine-mod zeiss zf.2s and am mid-process in converting a set of leica r lenses. The leicas are particularly short. In your estimation, is using the converted leicas with follow focus on the c300 an unrealistic expectation?

I will rent and test fairly soon, but it'll be some weeks before my current job finishes, so I thought to ask after your experience.
 
Excellent choice on the rental plan.....always best to try things out. That being said, the Canons just work and the C3000 MK II covers a lot of bases well with no issues....and yes, Canon's color science or DNA as we call it, is warm & creamy with face tones being nailed.....a huge time & money saver in post and something that pays off every time you use it.
And, there is 0% financing for 24 months (about $500 per month + tax).....and given the current rental rate of around $4-450 a day, you just have to do 2 jobs a month and your payment is covered!

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
I was mostly thinking of renting as a cheap way to try out and prioritize lenses.

But I agree with your points above.
 
A lot of the older SLR glass from Canon (FD), leica and zeiss are just too small. The CX00 series has a lip under the lens mount to keep the camera balanced without a baseplate. That lip on the bottom can make it impossible to get a follow focus onto some of those shorter lenses. I have the genus superior follow focus and I can flip the gear on to the rear side, but then I have no room to bring a mattebox anywhere close to the lens. Breathing is usually terrible on those old lens, which is sad since I, like many, have a drawer full of old FD lenses.

If Zeiss completes that set of Otus lenses with a nice wide angle, that'll be my next set of affordable primes. Knowing full well they won't match with my Canon cine-zooms.
 
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