Buying a new setup, really need some advice/opinions.

H

hazmatfilms

New member
I posted a variant of this in the PREMIERE forum as well, so hopefully noone minds that i'm posting it here as well.

I am starting a film company and shooting some stuff, varying from adult content, music videos etc.. I am literally buying an entire setup from scratch, computers, cameras, etc., and I am really torn on a few things.

I have ALWAYS been a PC guy, and done SOME editing in Premiere, (i'm by no means a pro editor, but i'm relatively computer savvy, and know my way around most of the adobe apps, and I can find my way around premiere fairly well) my original inclination, just from "industry standard" programming, was to invest 5k in a 12core MAC PRO, learn Final Cut, etc etc..

But the more I look into it, and read people's posts around the internet, especially in issues dealing with P2 on MACS and FCP, i'm really debating just sticking with a windows setup, and premiere. If money wasn't really an object, within reason, which way would you go?

Are they pretty much a horse a piece? Is it preference, like AVID was back in the day, or is there REALLY a huge benefit to learning a whole new editing and computer system?

Also, what would you recommend for minimum specs for a PC or MAC to seamlessly (and with maximum speed) manage a fairly heavy P2 workflow. (That was honestly where I thought the 12 core MAC would be useful, although maybe excessive?)

More than likely my camera setup is going to be a mix of HVX 200a's, and either an HPX 170 or HMC150 for field shooting. Also, if you have any input on AVCHD vs DVCPRO, especially in issues of subpar quality/compression with the AVCHD format, I would love that too, as i'm debating just using the HMC150 for a side camera, just for the ease and cheapness of SD Media. Seems like field-dumping p2 content is kind of a hassle.

Thank you SO much in advance.
 
With Premiere you can import the P2 footage and start editing immediately. Final Cut you have to process the footage with the Log and Transfer tool to re-wrap the material in a QuickTime container, so it's faster there.

I think Premiere CS5 is a better editor overall than Final Cut 7. They are both really similar, and most of the complaints I've heard about Premiere are general enough that it doesn't mean anything (Premiere sucks! or Premiere isn't for professionals!) to complaints that stem from ignorance of the product (i.e. "you can't link video and audio from different sources into a clip"...since you can nest timelines in Premiere, you can do essentially that).

If you want to maximize your ease of using a P2 workflow under Premiere CS5 (which I'm assuming you will get for this setup), then I suggest a Core i7 with at least 12 gigabytes of RAM (another knock against Final Cut Pro 7 is that it's still 32-bit while Premiere CS5 is not so you can use all that RAM goodness). You might also want a solid-state hard drive to run your OS and apps off of (I would recommend at least 80GB for this, though you'll get more breathing room with 160-300GB if you can afford it). If you don't want an SSD, get a 10,000RPM hard drive in that capacity. Then add on at least 1TB for a secondary drive that will store your projects since P2 can eat up a lot of space. As for a video card, make that a GeForce GTX 285 at the very least, though ideally a Quadro FX 5800 (if money is no object).

Finally, get a nice widescreen monitor. I use an ASUS 24" and I love it.

EDIT: An field dumping P2 is no problem if you have the AJ-PCD2, which is a USB P2 card reader.
 
Yeah that is pretty much the spec range I have been looking in.

I'm actually considering either this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5662672&CatId=4928

or this:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4945616&CatId=3460

I kinda like the first one better, and it's a little cheaper, but the second supports multiple windows environments, and 4 displays, which is nice. The other one only supports 2.

And the second one supports CUDA.

But pretty sure both would probably do the trick.

Actually there's a cheaper variation of the VISIONMAN that with a memory upgrade could probably do it too, for like $1000 less.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4945616&CatId=3460
 
OK if I were OP, right here and now I may consider a premiere workflow if, I am not going to be moving footage from my studio to someone else's regularly (because they most likely are running FCP or Avid and these things take a bit more time). CS5 and its cuda bells and whistles is pretty darn good. The new AE in CS5 is fantastic, same for PS.

subtleinspiration said:
With Premiere you can import the P2 footage and start editing immediately. Final Cut you have to process the footage with the Log and Transfer tool to re-wrap the material in a QuickTime container, so it's faster there.
Click to expand...

Yes, but be careful as that statement overlooks why we use Log and Transfer to begin with. The process of L & T, is more than just dropping the footage in so you can cut it in your timeline. When used properly apart from any VFX, trimming and color grading, you should be pretty set up to whip through it. By using logging info, pre trimming and setting up your bins - many of your editing decisions are done with.
 
Noel Evans said:
By using logging info, pre trimming and setting up your bins - many of your editing decisions are done with.
Click to expand...

You would have to explain this in more detail, but it's nothing you cannot already do in Premiere...and I'm not a fan of "pre-trimming" either.

Log and Transfer's primary purpose is to re-wrap the DVCPRO files from the .MXF wrapper to the .MOV wrapper because otherwise Final Cut will refuse to have anything to do with them.
 
If the project was shot with skill and attention to detail log and transfer can be done by an Assistant editor and the projects can be mostly ready when the hired gun Editor show up to "whip through it."

There are many more reason why this technique from "the old days" is still around. Yes you can dump every second into your 4TB RAID and chop as you go, but when working with a team or project that will need to be used over and again many times "Log and Transfer" or "Log and Capture" really help.

The first Avid I ever touched had a $19,000 9gig SCSI RAID Array with those beasts Logging and trimming was mandatory.
 
Thanks for all the feedback/discussion.

I actually decided to go with this for a machine:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6077292&CatId=1886

I like the cooling system (and it looks cool.. haha), and that particular GEFORCE card (there's 2 of them in it) has mostly the same specs, is CUDA compliant, and has the same chip as the Quadro, and I think with some software/firmware adjustment the Geforce cards will actually recognize themselves as Quadros.
 
kgimedia said:
Yes you can dump every second into your 4TB RAID and chop as you go, but when working with a team or project that will need to be used over and again many times "Log and Transfer" or "Log and Capture" really help.
Click to expand...

A lot of people on here will never be in that situation. Besides, those that routinely are will be editing on AVID probably anyway.
 
subtleinspiration said:
A lot of people on here will never be in that situation. Besides, those that routinely are will be editing on AVID probably anyway.
Click to expand...

Just wondering when you say "that situation" do you mean working with more then 1 other person on post or opening a project and using media more then once.
 
subtleinspiration said:
Working on a team of editors or being stuck with a 9 gig RAID setup.
Click to expand...

Yow!

I'm using a pair of QNAP network attached storage devices and an HP ProCurve managed 1G switch. The first is a RAID5 file share (which spins out approx 100MB/sec when multiple computers make multiple requests across the dual-gig ethernet ports) and the second is a RAID5 backup device. (RAID is not backup, it's filesystem integrity.)

Amazon review of QNAP TS-659

Amazon review of HP ProCurve switch

Amazon review of WDI 2TB drive

Hope you find them helpful!
 
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