FS7: Burn in a LUT?

Bern Caughey

Bern Caughey

Veteran
Do any of you ever record a LUT?

I've got an ongoing series of interviews (under controlled lighting, & studio-esque settings) for clients that often need footage that's already par-cooked.

Mostly interested in the Alexa LUT, or similar look.
 
The biggest issue with burning in a LUT is that you will be limited to three white balance presets that may not provide the accuracy you need. Also, in my opinion, there is nothing you can do with a LUT that can't be done better with a Scene File in the custom mode. Show me any LUT you like, and I will beat it with a Scene File. Of course, if you're going to grade, that is an entirely different story. But for WYSIWYG with no grading, my advice is to create a Scene File instead of a LUT.

You may be interested in this experiement I did a few months ago.
http://www.vortexmedia.com/LUTS_VS_SCENE_FILES.html
 
Doug's advice about always beating a burned in LUT with a scene file would be disputed by many .
Personally I use both - whichever one I like better . I suggest searching dvxuser for info on Cameraman Ben's LUTCalc .
You can make an "extended 709typeA LUT " that goes from 0-2 IRE to 109that gives you a snappier burned in look .
using LUTs is a learning curve , but so are scene files .
 
Bern I have a few things where I burn in LC709A and hand footage off straight away, as you know it's way faster than transcoding the footage in post just to add a LUT so if you can do it in-camera then go for it. The stock LC709A places the blacks a little high, but any editor these days can pull it down without any rocket science. Give editors some credit. Alternatively you can modify LC709A yourself as I or others have done and then load it back in the camera.

If you're baking a LUT in then all the secret transposed underlying levels become irrelevant, there really isn't any learning curve – it's 'What You See Is What You Get' so you can put mids where you want, watch you don't clip, and you're off to the races.
 
Hey Doug, just loaded your 32 DJ-TYPEA-LOOK Scene File on my FS7, THANKS!. I always shoot in sLog 3, but this client has had trouble with sLog 2 from a Sony A7sIII and is afraid. Anyway after loading your scene file, it's showing s-Log 2 in the viewfinder. Image looks pleasing with normal contrast and saturation, maybe slightly reduced saturation. What's up...Thanks in advance!

Craig Needelman
DP Philadelphia
 
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cneedelman said:
Hey Doug, just loaded your 32 DJ-TYPEA-LOOK Scene File on my FS7, THANKS!. I always shoot in sLog 3, but this client has had trouble with sLog 2 from a Sony A7sIII and is afraid. Anyway after loading your scene file, it's showing s-Log 2 in the viewfinder. Image looks pleasing with normal contrast and saturation, maybe slightly reduced saturation. What's up...Thanks in advance!

Craig Needelman
DP Philadelphia
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HI Craig, I honestly have no idea what the answer is to your question! :-) I produced that profile almost 5 years ago and have never even used it myself. In fact, haven't even seen my FS7 since last summer. I'm afraid you'll have to sort it out for yourself because I am officially clueless unless I looked up my notes.
 
When I do burn in a LUT is usually when I need to deliver files straight away and usually when the shoot involves a wide dynamic range of light such as bright outdoor strong sunlight harsh shadow conditions. If it's indoors under controlled lighting with a dynamic range controlled by my lighting I tend to agree with DJ and tend to shoot Custom with one of my preferred Scene Files. When burning LUTs I'm finding Alister's latest v3 bunch work pretty well and I find I'm using them more and more.

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2018/05/venice-look-luts-for-14-stop-cameras-a7-fs5-fs7-f5-f55-etc/

Chris Young
 
Doug, thanks for the quick reply, I may just go with LC709A, as we are in a controlled lighting situation for the most part.
 
Just burned in a LUT today. There are times when it's the right choice and today was one of those days.
 
I find the 709A LUT to be a little flat - for burning in, for use in monitoring and also for use as a starting point in grading. I took a suggestion from Art Adams ( who developed 709A and who the A in 709A is based on) and made a new one in LUTCALC using the Varicam gamma and the 709A gamut . I also lowered the black level a bit. This produces a nicer saturated and punchier looking LUT that is especially more valuable for people who aren't apt to do a lot of correction after you hand them the footage. Its a better finished look IMHO.
 
Yes I think he was being tongue in cheek there.. the A is for Arri.. Sony were, for them anyway, pretty straight open in saying the LUT was to give an Arri "look"..
 
Actually Juan Martinez , former US Sony senior manager in charge off the FS7 specifically told me the A did stand for Art Adams who developed LC-709A based on his realization (explained in an old Pro Video Coalition article) that a big part of the film look (and the Arri look) was a a steadily decreasing saturation as the image got into the brighter range. Juan told me that was the difference between the LC-709 and the LC-709A LUT in the FS7 and FS5/55. If you go to LUTCALC, you will see 709A listed as a gamut rather than just a gamma. That is a way to make a LUT that uses that subtle decreasing highlight saturation along with any other gamma you like. Now I never asked Art himself if that was true or whether he did specifically work with Sony on the LUT but it would seem like a very odd thing for Juan to make up. I assumed it stood for Arri also but when I asked Juan, to my surprise that's what he told me. He didn't know that I knew Art at the time.
 
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LennyLevy said:
I find the 709A LUT to be a little flat - for burning in, for use in monitoring and also for use as a starting point in grading. I took a suggestion from Art Adams ( who developed 709A and who the A in 709A is based on) and made a new one in LUTCALC using the Varicam gamma and the 709A gamut . I also lowered the black level a bit. This produces a nicer saturated and punchier looking LUT that is especially more valuable for people who aren't apt to do a lot of correction after you hand them the footage. Its a better finished look IMHO.
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To give it its full title it is LC-709TypeA. The LC stands for Low Contrast, so it most circumstances it would need additional contrast and saturation as a minimum. I think it’s a good monitor LUT as it’s not too aggressive, but not something to be used as a final look. Didn’t know Art Adams was behind its development though, I remember he released his own AA LUTs which were very similar, so it makes sense.
 
LennyLevy said:
Actually Juan Martinez , former US Sony senior manager in charge off the FS7 specifically told me the A did stand for Art Adams who developed LC-709A based on his realization (explained in an old Pro Video Coalition article) that a big part of the film look (and the Arri look) was a a steadily decreasing saturation as the image got into the brighter range. Juan told me that was the difference between the LC-709 and the LC-709A LUT in the FS7 and FS5/55. If you go to LUTCALC, you will see 709A listed as a gamut rather than just a gamma. That is a way to make a LUT that uses that subtle decreasing highlight saturation along with any other gamma you like. Now I never asked Art himself if that was true or whether he did specifically work with Sony on the LUT but it would seem like a very odd thing for Juan to make up. I assumed it stood for Arri also but when I asked Juan, to my surprise that's what he told me. He didn't know that I knew Art at the time.
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I stand corrected .. although Im still not 100% convinced ,as I remember reading Art himself, when he had his own site.. only said the A maybe stood for him, and in a light hearted way.. although it most likely stood for Arri.. by his own admission ..
 
Donny 123 said:
. . . although Im still not 100% convinced
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Neither am I.
I don't doubt that Lenny's conversation with Juan happened, but I doubt that what he was told during that conversation was correct. "A" is for Arri. The Japanese who make the camera don't know and don't care who Art Adams is.
 
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Well I don't imagine we'll ever get closure on that one but its hard for me to imagine why Juan would have volunteered anything peculiar like that. Also why would a weird rumor that it stood for some guy named Art Adams have ever even started. It does work for both Art and Arri so maybe they killed 2 birds with one stone.
 
Sigma, as far as I know a Japanese company, named a bunch of their lensen 'Art' so there must be more about this mister Adams or that Arri thing.
 
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