Bokeh: Spoiled by HD-DSLR

Zacuto did a test last year showing the bokeh of 35mm vs 5D vs D90 vs various DOF adapters. The DSLR bokeh was very similar to 35mm as you would expect. The adapters bokeh looked muddy and "unnatural". Some cinematographer mates of mine have had similar results comparing the EX1 with adapters vs the 5D.
 
I guess the proper terms would be additional halation and softness from the GG. We would have to consider resolution of the systems as well, and that each adapter has its own look from their GGs being completely different.

So, a general halation and softness would be the attributes you are describing, though these are throughout the frame, including the in-focus areas.

Each GG will give you more or less of these, some imperceptible for a few people's taste, some not. I LOVED the SGpro look, but sensitivity was insane.
 
Well I tend to come from the other side.

The two pictures are totally different and we have no idea what the f stop was.I am one of those who doesn't like the DSLR bokeh because I feel it draws attention to itself. Watching lots of films on Blu ray that were acquired on film, the bokeh does not look like what we get from DSLRs imho. The razor sharp look of the out of focus circles is an example. The highly resolved bokeh is a by product of the high quality imaging sensors but if it becomes the pursuit in the art itself ,perhaps it is a mistake.

I said this in another thread - we are to draw attention to the subject and talent and not the background - that's what depth of field control is all about isn't it?Now that it is affordable for indies we are all like kids in a candy store. We want lots of it and all over the place.

Too many videos on Vimeo where people keep going on about bokeh - most of them are nauseating to watch because about an inch of the main subject is in focus and we are glorifying the bokeh. Maybe works for a Phillip Bloom, nature-type movie but not motion picture where the camera is moving and you have a focus puller at work. Most films I have watched have been pleasant because they had a highly detailed picture with focus drawn ever so subtly to the talent. They don't often shoot on super fast glass wide open either to get that cool bokeh that indies love.

I have learned that I need to get over this love of bokeh - and whether using my 5D,Gh1 or adaptor rig - calm down and shoot like a pro. I can get both looks now and I prefer the DOF adaptor look. Bokeh control is another tool in the kit and can be used when required with wisdom. It's nice to have the options now.

It was a bit like when I first used an EQ. I went around boosting everything - then I learned from asking pros like George Massenburg on forums - better to cut than boost and better do it subtly as well.My mixes sound so much better now....just saying.
 
Bokeh is not the issue. The real issue is whether or not the content is properly developed and we want to stay connected to the central subject.

Most of the DSLR video's that I see out there are basically tests. We are forced to pay attention to the aesthetics qualities (or lack of it) because their is no evolution going on in terms of the story or content.

Shallow bokeh is joyous, but extremely difficult to manage when their is movement involved, either with the camera, the subject or both. We tend to see therefore images shot from relatively fixed positions with subjects that aren't moving around too much. As I think human tripods don't really work, many things feel frankly amateurish. Even if shoulder mount stuff is good for giving a more gritty or journalistic look, that too all too often feels sloppy and unwarranted as opposed to intentional.

Intentionality is the key. When the background is thought out, even in terms of what is out of focus, I love it. It reveals a more "subjective" viewpoint because there is always an unconscious notion of choice involved. When the choices are imaginative it is art.
 
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Getting nice creamy filmic bokeh is all about lens selection and picture style settings. A cheap zoom with standard profile looks nothing like a good prime shooting with a custom profile which looks much more filmic. Super shallow DOF is a great addition to the toolkit but if you want the godfather just spin the aperture ring to f/5.6 on that 50mm prime and hey presto.
 
I don't think that in the 2 screenshots you are comparing one can attribute the difference of bokeh to the adapter vs dslr.
It depends on the aperture settings that have been used in both cases.
Hence, it is rather a lens result.

I will post some footage today or tomorrow (and link it here) where I think the image from my dof adapter has a bokeh which is more similar to the second photo you quote (dslr type). Another lens would have produced a different type of bokeh probably.

Apart from that, I personally like the "vintage" look (by contrast to ultra sharp dslr) that DOF adapters produce for the whole image frame. Hopefully, I will be comparing the dof look to the dslr look soon, when I 'll get a gh1.
 
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Great feedback.

Like I said, it wasn't a scientific article, just an observation. And it all comes down to personal preference. I happen to like the look of DSLR bokeh...it has more life and character to me. Especially when using my Zeiss glass.
 
kostas said:
I will post some footage today or tomorrow (and link it here) where I think the image from my dof adapter has a bokeh which is more similar to the second photo you quote (dslr type). Another lens would have produced a different type of bokeh probably.
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Since footage is uploaded now, I just provide a link to the relevant thread.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1977409#post1977409
Sorry if this is considered double posting.
 
yoclay said:
Most of the DSLR video's that I see out there are basically tests. We are forced to pay attention to the aesthetics qualities (or lack of it) because their is no evolution going on in terms of the story or content.
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Amen to that. If I see another shot of a fence pulling in and out of focus I'll assassinate Phillip Bloom. I know it isn't really his fault, but someone has to pay for all this. :kali:
 
evilken said:
Amen to that. If I see another shot of a fence pulling in and out of focus I'll assassinate Phillip Bloom. I know it isn't really his fault, but someone has to pay for all this. :kali:
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This has been going on since the adapters got popular. It's *Rack-Mania!*

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I would also point out that in your EX1 shot the background is very plain and doesn't have anything in it to produce those "bokeh ring" like in the 2nd shot, which is what people usually considers to be attractive about bokeh.
 
I don't see how the sensor can have anything to do with bokeh. It's merely transposing what's being projected onto it. It should be all about what's in front of the sensor.

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emretufekci said:
Haha, I wish Phillip all the best and hope he makes a gabillion bucks to retire to the private island of his choice but some times the truth hurts:

http://cameradeptporn.tumblr.com/post/408846984/ah-philip-philip-philip-philip-you-started
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Amen. He seems like a nice guy, and I really dig what he's done for the industry...

...but holy hell, how is he allowed to use copyrighted music over his "films"? Isn't that like...you know...illegal (especially considering his helping sell products for Zacuto and the like).

Nothing against, Mr. bloom. He takes really purty pictures, but I'll admit I'm totally jealous of his fame (especially because he's never actually shot a real movie with a true story).
 
a lot has to do with the background detail too; shiny objects tend to make more distracting 'bokeh'. personally, if i want the background out of focus, i dont want anyone noticing the bokeh of paying it any mind. GG bokeh or very soft lens bokeh is my preferred choice.
 
ikander said:
Amen. He seems like a nice guy, and I really dig what he's done for the industry...

...but holy hell, how is he allowed to use copyrighted music over his "films"? Isn't that like...you know...illegal (especially considering his helping sell products for Zacuto and the like).
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I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure he does not use uncleared 'copyrighted' music for commercial videos; he knows better than that.
Many say you are allowed to use any music you want for a fun video; it's always a good idea to give a credit though.

Those that know more please respond, thanks.
 
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