I would sure like to see some footage from the BMPC4K. It's hard to understand why we haven't...the official word is that the "shipping in July" commitment is still good.
C100: Bmcc -> c100
- Thread starter Danny1280
- Start date
I would sure like to see some footage from the BMPC4K. It's hard to understand why we haven't...the official word is that the "shipping in July" commitment is still good.
alex1
Well-known member
I feel the same way. The C100 is easier to use, but image quality is always the most important factor for me and the bmcc blows away most cameras under $15k
Not just RAW, but the 10bit 220mb Prores footage is a joy to play around with in post and unless you really nail the C100 exposure in camera, the files are a lot harder to correct later due to the 8bit color space and high compression.
G
Guest
Guest
8bit is unforgiving.
The BMPocket is shipping in 3 to 4 days, and I believe the official word on the 4k has changed to mid-august.
indiawilds
Veteran
My comment here shouldn't be meant as a criticism. I am actually surprised by all the talk about nailing the exposure.
With all the tools like Waveform monitor, lightmeters etc available these days why exposing correctly should be a challenge? And then you have the zebra settings to know the overexposure.
This is an honest question.
With all the tools like Waveform monitor, lightmeters etc available these days why exposing correctly should be a challenge? And then you have the zebra settings to know the overexposure.
This is an honest question.
G
Guest
Guest
For me it is a few things.
Well, one I use a 1dc, which doesn't have real time waveforms, but an external monitor helps.
2. LCD tv's show 8bit posterization, when CRT monitors smoothed things out.
3. New cameras and higher standards, does not make 8bit obsolete, but does require more from it.
4. Even with all the tools available, still requires an alert mind to get correct exposure.
5. Depends on the aesthetic and goals, so "correct exposure" to one may be off to another. The degree to which the limits of the camera are pushed vary as well.
G
Guest
Guest
...6bit is less forgiving.
dustylense
Veteran
That is why I feel blessed that I started imaging with film. A good 10 years shooting architecture on 4x5 and 8x10 inch transparency along with one sheet of backup color negative. Then lots of personal work with B&W. I spent so much time testing film and reading values on a densitometer and drawing curves with different developers and such.
I carried all of that over to digital photography (before we had RAW) and applied my film days to pixel days. There is no doubt that RAW is standard for what I shoot with digital stills. But because I used to shoot transparency film that was beyond less forgiving don't have a hard time shooting 8 bit or jpeg stills. I still have $1000's of dollars worth of filters from my 4x5 days and have packed some of the more used ones from yesteryear.
My advice is that if one has never shoot extensively with film, go and buy a cheap 35mm and spend some time with some transparency film. I see people complain about 11 stops of DR and I laugh. Try shooting a twilight exterior with 10,000 watts of light on film with a crew of 3 on an 8x10 view camera. Digital has made it almost too easy...
Try this with a Dslr for one month. Take your camera out to shoot some personal shots and only shoot jpeg but make sure the monitor review is OFF. No chimping the LCD after every shot. Act as if the camera has film in it. Bring it home and do not color correct it on the computer. Do all of it in camera. You will quickly see if your a photographer or not.
I would have loved the exposure aids these video cameras have today beyond a light meter back in my film days. RAW??? LOL. Too easy! Sometimes I miss the old days of film only because you really had to know what you were doing and there were less of us. Now anybody can call themselves a photographer. It's good and bad at the same time.
And that's why I'm comfortable with the C100. I apply what I worked so hard to learn back when I was shooting film. Garbage in, garbage out. If you have to rely on massive color correction to take pictures, to me is says you didn't have a pre visualized concept to begin with.
Try it. Every now and then turn off your LCD and go shoot with a light meter and read your scene. It will sharpen you up. Kids today???? I remember when 400 ISO was grainy as hell.
troelskirk
Active member
Ahh Christopher, you made me sorely miss the days of my 8x10 Gandolfi, the Weston Master V for exposure, the smell of the red darkroom, burning the fingers on the gloss press... Man, I'm getting old!!
G
Guest
Guest
Nailing vs correctly are two differe.t things, imho.
dustylense
Veteran
I still have my 4x5 and lenses. Donated my 8x10 to the Art Center. I probably would get $200 for my 4x5. So I keep it for nostalgics. I love around the corner where I started taking classes in college for photography. SO every now and then I go up there and visit the darkroom and take in that sweet aroma and watch prints rinse in the wash.
groveChuck
U-matic Member
Ahhh, I love the look of Tri-X and the smell of napalm in the morning...
G
Guest
Guest
That is a wonderful ability to develop. And definitely one worth some respect, because it comes with only dedication. And I mean that.
I still do this, but during this time of camera leaps, too many cameras for me to feel confident in just doing the light meter and disciplined instinct. Though, seems like we are getting close to some sensor tech plateau, as far as needs go, so I may be able to settle down with a camera for a while soon. (maybe a raw D800 with no jello, or 2nd hand dragon) Yeah, some people complain about 11 stops DR, especially with cams like D5200, D800, etc. While we work within restrictions to get results, we at least have to recognize that there are pleanty of situations where more DR is desirable... and possible. 11stop differences exist all throughout the natural world, and I run into plenty of shots where I have to choose between muddy no-detail shadows or clipped highlights.
I know there may be some film ops out there that have an unreal sense of exposure... but sometimes I find myself doing one-cam run and gun jumping between bright stage lights and dark back stage areas, trying get every usable second as things happen, all using available light, and sheeesh, sure am happy to not be shooting film.... or rather would be impossible with film, as changing stocks or metering or going on a gut feeling, things could be lost. And I know I am not arguing against your points here, just saying I am glad for what we have now. Amazing tools, and doing some things that were impossible before. Which is what you are saying too, I think. Haha, good times.
I tend to bring up what cameras lack on forums, or places I am not satisfied, and for that I often feel like I am bringing everyone down, but I only do so if I like a camera in the first place, and want to use it on a daily basis, and so mention things that get in my way... especially when there are proven and established better ways. For example... no waveform on 1DC or small EVF on C100 to state the obvious, or the less asked for... just wanting a picture style that has the same base color palette as C-Log, but can be edited in Canon's Picture Style Editor. That way, I can edit my own curve, and still use C-Log when needed, and they intercut easily at the end of the day, rather than using C-log or nothing type of feel. (but until that happens, I will be looking into manipulating neutral to look like C-Log for easier mixing, which is a lot of hard work, and lots of mind numbing detailed observation, and man, sometimes I feel like film would be easier than all these tiered and half baked cameras every 6months!!! but not really)
Well, at the end of the day, I agree with a lot of what you said. There are people already seemingly complaining about the Red Dragon upgrade for one reason or another. And just want to apologize if I ever seem to way down the discourse with negativity.
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indiawilds
Veteran
Nice to hear about the experience of dustylense with still film cameras.
I too have been a still photographer before moving into filmmaking. I was shooting negative films as well as colour slide films. The margin of error was very less. More than half a stop and the slide will be waste. Even composition had to be well thought out keeping in mind the limited dynamic range of the slide film.
More than one and a half decades back during my MBA days, I had done all the black and white photographs for our year book. It was a ton of learning.
When outdoors, I was using the Sunny f16 rule. These days with the advent of cameras with good metering, it has became easy to expose well.
The camera meter has the tendency to pull up or push down the scene towards medium tone, so dial up the exposure compensation accordingly.
I still have my 1D Mark IV. It has a good meter for still photography. So I use that as an aid to expose. While photographing I shoot in Av mode, but for filming I use manual. Point at a scene for eg the sky and shoot. The camera meter will create an exposure which will render it midtone. Dial in one stop and it will become light. Dial in two stops and it will become very light. Have a look with the 1D C.
If you have tons of time then you can go upto the extent of clicking a still image and checking the histogram and deciding on your exposure. Earlier some people used to use a polaroid to click and check the exposure and then used to expose with film.
I am not sure if the Canon Gods know what we are talking in this forum. So instead of cribbing lets make use of whatever tools we have.
ok preaching over. Now Canon I want waveform in my C300 EVF.
I too have been a still photographer before moving into filmmaking. I was shooting negative films as well as colour slide films. The margin of error was very less. More than half a stop and the slide will be waste. Even composition had to be well thought out keeping in mind the limited dynamic range of the slide film.
More than one and a half decades back during my MBA days, I had done all the black and white photographs for our year book. It was a ton of learning.
When outdoors, I was using the Sunny f16 rule. These days with the advent of cameras with good metering, it has became easy to expose well.
The camera meter has the tendency to pull up or push down the scene towards medium tone, so dial up the exposure compensation accordingly.
I still have my 1D Mark IV. It has a good meter for still photography. So I use that as an aid to expose. While photographing I shoot in Av mode, but for filming I use manual. Point at a scene for eg the sky and shoot. The camera meter will create an exposure which will render it midtone. Dial in one stop and it will become light. Dial in two stops and it will become very light. Have a look with the 1D C.
If you have tons of time then you can go upto the extent of clicking a still image and checking the histogram and deciding on your exposure. Earlier some people used to use a polaroid to click and check the exposure and then used to expose with film.
I am not sure if the Canon Gods know what we are talking in this forum. So instead of cribbing lets make use of whatever tools we have.
ok preaching over. Now Canon I want waveform in my C300 EVF.
cowpunk52
Veteran
Apologies for going off topic here, but 8x10? What an insanely gorgeous format. I'd love to see some work you've done with it. I long for the days when I had the time to shoot large-format film. All these digital tools that have come out that give so much so quickly has lead to a professional culture of rushed expectations, and I think we've lost something in that.
cowpunk52
Veteran
Nice job matching the cameras here. They both look really great. Now what are we going to bicker about?
G
Guest
Guest
Haha, they look the same. (i can't them because of a firewall) Brian, true words, we have such a rushed photo/video culture now. Too true.
dustylense
Veteran
Great, now I have to go scan all my 8x10 work to show Cowpunk all my old work. LOL! I only pulled out the 8x10 for hotel and high end architecture back in the day. I don't have the 8x10 anymore but I still have some 4x5 gear.
But If I was shooting with the 8x10 toady, this is the type of work one would expect from me:
