Blackmagic URSA : full Fledged Camera
- Thread starter Kholi
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oron cohen
Member
I'm not sure about the this camera, time will tell. also, wouldn't you say, its safer and better to just get a used Red Scarlet instead of messing around with BMD? (sensor issues and delivery times and firmware updates not coming).
I mean, you can get a workable Scarlet package for about 10K, I shot a feature on this camera, and it worked great, plus Red have the interchangeable mounts system and upgradable sensors for years now, it does however lacking onboard sounds. But let get serious, who is recoding a 4K S35 anything without a proper sound guy with a sound recorder? I just been on a C300 shoot and the sound guy brought his Sound Device recorder...
Major selling point for Blackmagic for me till this point was the PRICE, but for about 8-9K of workable camera, I think in this point in time, it's better to look elsewhere.
I mean, you can get a workable Scarlet package for about 10K, I shot a feature on this camera, and it worked great, plus Red have the interchangeable mounts system and upgradable sensors for years now, it does however lacking onboard sounds. But let get serious, who is recoding a 4K S35 anything without a proper sound guy with a sound recorder? I just been on a C300 shoot and the sound guy brought his Sound Device recorder...
Major selling point for Blackmagic for me till this point was the PRICE, but for about 8-9K of workable camera, I think in this point in time, it's better to look elsewhere.
TheMusician
Well-known member
Has anyone seen whether there is an OLPF? Blackmagic cameras make as beautiful of images as I have seen on cameras that cost many times more, but their biggest problem is moire and aliasing. At 4k, and being touted as a digital film camera, I would buy it in an instant if these two issues have been squashed, but won't give it even a second look if this is an issue with this camera.
Ian-T
Veteran
I don't think the 4K suffers from any of that. The 2k and Full HD ones do.
stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
looking at the physical specs, they state 16.53lbs which is around 7,5kgs
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa/techspecs
NMSK
Active member
Hmm, BMD's 2014 cameras better be at LEAST 95% perfect before they hit the streets, otherwise it's going to really hurt customer confidence. The size of the monitor is comical. It really looks like an F3 with a thyroid problem. And the alleged weight of the camera is really concerning. If I was going to bother wrangling a camera 7.5kg or more, it would be an F35.
AJA's offering is really very interesting though, but some more footage would be nice. They have a real opportunity to attract and keep BMD's dissatisfied user base, and professionals with little faith in the current BMD cams. I'd be considering it too if I wasn't already an FS700R owner sorting to buy the O7Q in the next month or two, as it will be able to deliver me very similar specs. Plus CD's SSD's are cheaper.
These are interesting times.
AJA's offering is really very interesting though, but some more footage would be nice. They have a real opportunity to attract and keep BMD's dissatisfied user base, and professionals with little faith in the current BMD cams. I'd be considering it too if I wasn't already an FS700R owner sorting to buy the O7Q in the next month or two, as it will be able to deliver me very similar specs. Plus CD's SSD's are cheaper.
These are interesting times.
Yes, BMD makes some stellar products. Davinci Resolve is fantastic and brought the cost of all color apps way down! But their camera offerings are all over the map. Not sure how much an advantage is getting a new URSA vs a USED SCARLET. Scarlet packages used are plentiful, and IQ is proven to be very good. URSA would have to have a great image at ISO 800 to be in the competitive ball park.
stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
^^that - plus the FS700/O7Q Combo gives us higher framerates in 2K, maybe even in 4K as Mitch stated...
indiawilds
Veteran
NAB 2012: BMC first announced the Version 1.0. Got people excited. Couldn't deliver in 11 months.
NAB 2013: So to deflect attention from their failure, they announced not one but 2 cameras (BMPC, 4K). Cameras were again delayed and with serious issues.
NAB 2014: So what do you expect BMC to do? They announced not one, not 2 but 4 cameras. (URSA EF, URSA PL, URSA broadcast, URSA HDMI or studio camera whatever )
Wonder what they will do in NAB 2015?
NAB 2013: So to deflect attention from their failure, they announced not one but 2 cameras (BMPC, 4K). Cameras were again delayed and with serious issues.
NAB 2014: So what do you expect BMC to do? They announced not one, not 2 but 4 cameras. (URSA EF, URSA PL, URSA broadcast, URSA HDMI or studio camera whatever )
Wonder what they will do in NAB 2015?
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Same sensor, the CMOSIS CMV12000. The difference in active imaging area dimensions reflects the difference between DCP 4K (4,096 x 2,160) vs. UHD (3,840 x 2,160). BMD's 4K Production Camera was, to my knowledge, the first generally available camera to use the CMV12000. The issues that have been encountered so far -- e.g., fixed-pattern noise and mediocre low-light performance -- may be simple growing pains that, in time, can be fixed with calibration tweaking, or they may be insurmountable problems arising from characteristics inherent in the design. The CMV12000 is nearly four years old, and unfortunately it appears to be one of the very few commodity APS-C 4K video sensors available, and maybe the only one with a global shutter. I suppose that's because there has been, until now, very little demand for 4K sensors.
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greenheron
Well-known member
This ruins both cameras for me. Why even purchase until the sensor is fixed/improved. The low light issue is inherent to the sensor. I like the way the design thinking is going but the sensor is the heart of the system. It is the "film".
What do you think? 8 cameras of course in 2015, then 16, them 32.. BMD has a 2x multiplier rule for every NAB. That way, everyone will have multiple choices when it comes to changing / canceling their "Pre-Orders." Wait long enough, and you won't ever have to commit to buying any camera.
I was like waw, till you find out that it uses Cfast 2.0 which is $1200 for 120gb, gets you about six minutes of 4k raw. Why didn't you stick with SSD? Makes no sense, it's no longer affordable and it's not full 4k, do they want buyers to upgrade sensor next year as they introduce more features instead of updating firmware?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
If this thing ships I am going to buy one. Maybe two. Here's why as it relates to a number of complaints I've seen in this thread.
1. Low light performance - Seriously? God forbid we actually have to LIGHT our films again instead of shooting everything at ISO 3200 and de-noising just so we don't have to place lights. I'm a cinematographer first, and actually enjoy lighting so this doesn't bother me. I light my DSLR shows, just like my other shows.
2. It's heavy. This coming from the same crowd that buy a pocket camera, put a metal cage on it, handles, broadcast batteries, counterweights for balance, external screens, external recorders, and all manner of accessories. I like that it's got weight to it. That means my handheld work won't have that cheap, frenetic look of a tiny DSLR. Go pick up a Dalsa Origin, or an Arri D21, or Viper, and get back to me.
3. It only has 12 stops of dynamic range. Ok, how many did the DVX100 have? Or the HVX? Or the RED One.
4. It uses expensive CFast media. Ummm, tell me about how much P2 media cost when it was as new as CFast. Or how much it is now. Or SxS, or AJA's media. Even SSD isn't cheap.
5. Blackmagic hasn't released firmware fixes for current cameras. So what. My BMCC works just like advertised. And it cost me less than my first purchase of SxS cards for my EX1.
6. It doesn't do 60p/120p. It's $6k. WIth the money you saved over buying a Scarlet package, rent a Flex4k.
7. BlackMagic ship cameras late. And RED. So don't plunk down on a pre-order. Keep your money in your pocket, and buy one when B&H has them in stock. Problem solved.
8. Why not just buy a used XYZ camera. Corporate accounting doesn't do "Used" cameras. If you're shooting for yourself, great. But I suspect a lot of these will find their way into corporate/government video departments, and that means new cameras only.
Here are my REAL concerns for this URSA camera.
1. Will it output frame lines onscreen... I want 2.40:1, 2:35:1, 16x9, and 4:3.
2. Can it run without a fan? That's a problem on the smaller cameras, but hopefully not on this one.
3. I think the 10" screen is too big. 7" would have been plenty. And I wish it had an EVF along with that screen so my puller could have a display to work from. But hey, it's cheap.
4. Will it ship anywhere near on time? I'm not in a particular hurry, but fiscal year planning makes this one tricky for me.
5. Will they solve the overdriven whites issue? At this budget level, they need that solved. On the $2k cameras, it's not fun, but more forgivable.
Overall, it's a nice effort and version 2 will probably be stunning. I just wish BM would get cameras like this in the hands of some ASC, BSC, etc., members to suss out some of the human interface issues before finalizing design.
1. Low light performance - Seriously? God forbid we actually have to LIGHT our films again instead of shooting everything at ISO 3200 and de-noising just so we don't have to place lights. I'm a cinematographer first, and actually enjoy lighting so this doesn't bother me. I light my DSLR shows, just like my other shows.
2. It's heavy. This coming from the same crowd that buy a pocket camera, put a metal cage on it, handles, broadcast batteries, counterweights for balance, external screens, external recorders, and all manner of accessories. I like that it's got weight to it. That means my handheld work won't have that cheap, frenetic look of a tiny DSLR. Go pick up a Dalsa Origin, or an Arri D21, or Viper, and get back to me.
3. It only has 12 stops of dynamic range. Ok, how many did the DVX100 have? Or the HVX? Or the RED One.
4. It uses expensive CFast media. Ummm, tell me about how much P2 media cost when it was as new as CFast. Or how much it is now. Or SxS, or AJA's media. Even SSD isn't cheap.
5. Blackmagic hasn't released firmware fixes for current cameras. So what. My BMCC works just like advertised. And it cost me less than my first purchase of SxS cards for my EX1.
6. It doesn't do 60p/120p. It's $6k. WIth the money you saved over buying a Scarlet package, rent a Flex4k.
7. BlackMagic ship cameras late. And RED. So don't plunk down on a pre-order. Keep your money in your pocket, and buy one when B&H has them in stock. Problem solved.
8. Why not just buy a used XYZ camera. Corporate accounting doesn't do "Used" cameras. If you're shooting for yourself, great. But I suspect a lot of these will find their way into corporate/government video departments, and that means new cameras only.
Here are my REAL concerns for this URSA camera.
1. Will it output frame lines onscreen... I want 2.40:1, 2:35:1, 16x9, and 4:3.
2. Can it run without a fan? That's a problem on the smaller cameras, but hopefully not on this one.
3. I think the 10" screen is too big. 7" would have been plenty. And I wish it had an EVF along with that screen so my puller could have a display to work from. But hey, it's cheap.
4. Will it ship anywhere near on time? I'm not in a particular hurry, but fiscal year planning makes this one tricky for me.
5. Will they solve the overdriven whites issue? At this budget level, they need that solved. On the $2k cameras, it's not fun, but more forgivable.
Overall, it's a nice effort and version 2 will probably be stunning. I just wish BM would get cameras like this in the hands of some ASC, BSC, etc., members to suss out some of the human interface issues before finalizing design.
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
It's cheaper per gig than P2 media. And let's rewind to the days of the HVX200 when an hour of media cost more than the camera. Yet, here we are. CFast prices will drop quickly once Canon release a DSLR with it.
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
Good points.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Exactly. So light your movie like you were shooting film. Remember 100ISO film? Or 250D? There's a reason Mole Richardson is around, and a reason ARRI makes 20K HMI's.
greenheron
Well-known member
Man, you are hilarious. Like anyone on this forum, but a few, will ever have Arri 20K HMI's on their shoot, much less Arri M18's. Lighting is expensive and takes a larger and more experienced crew, generators, tow trucks to pull generators. I know because I was a working as a professional Gaffer for 20 years before moving to working as a DP. I know how to light with HMI's, Tungsten, Xenons, etc. If you think there is no advantage to a fast camera then you are completely ignoring the fact that when we shot on film we were always scrambling for a great looking 500 iso film.
I applaud your diving into deep waters on this camera, but the forums are full of individuals complaining about the problems they are having with the sensor that exists for the Blackmagic 4K camera. If you have the budget for large HMI's, generators, large crew then what the frack are you doing talking about this minor offering from Blackmagic.
I applaud your diving into deep waters on this camera, but the forums are full of individuals complaining about the problems they are having with the sensor that exists for the Blackmagic 4K camera. If you have the budget for large HMI's, generators, large crew then what the frack are you doing talking about this minor offering from Blackmagic.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Good points, but what matters to you doesn't matter to others and vice versa. For instance I don't care about the frame lines, but I do care about not having a 20 plus pound behemoth to lug around. And I do wonder about being able to format/play/delete clips and audio. Etc. The frame rates are no big deal to me but some people want them...and it's important to them. For some 4K is important, others not....some may be shooting in situations where a better low light camera is desired, others have the time and the situation for always lighting perfectly.
One mans go to camera will be a nightmare for others.