SJX
Veteran
Ok but it still the same. Their cameras have no consistence. It really looks like each one is a discount parts bin special. No standard across the board.
Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro with Internal ND Filters and EVF
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
Ok but it still the same. Their cameras have no consistence. It really looks like each one is a discount parts bin special. No standard across the board.
NorBro
Major Contributor
IMO, that's unfair criticism...the cameras are $1400, $2000.
Maybe quality-control has questionable consistency - even though it has tremendously improved over the last 9 years - but their camera line makes up one of the most consistent model trees in the history of cameras.
They reused 6 different bodies to create a second generation (or accompanying model).
BMCC --> BMPC
Micro Cinema --> Micro Studio
Studio HD --> Studio 4K
URSA Mini 4K --> URSA Mini 4.6K
UMP G1 --> UMP G2
Pocket 4K --> Pocket 6K
And the cameras have constantly been updated throughout the years with remarkable improvements and free features that other companies would charge a few thousand dollars for. (And the menu styles have been consistent and extremely user-friendly.)
They offer the best value/IQ for the money and always will.
They make the other cameras better too, with Resolve.
Without JB to correct me, I'd speculate that they changed/upgraded their subcontractors, as they began to move more and more units.
Or hired more people for QC and slowed down the production schedule.
Because the old QC complaints have pretty much disappeared and their camera ratings keep going up and up.
Or hired more people for QC and slowed down the production schedule.
Because the old QC complaints have pretty much disappeared and their camera ratings keep going up and up.
I’m late to the party on this one, but I just got the p6k pro a couple of days ago as a b-cam. Already used it outdoors on a sunny Texas day. One thing that helps is the camera is dual native iso, and the lower native you’ll be sticking to in bright conditions isn’t 800, but 400.
I do miss the 10 stops on my old C200, but that was a significantly bigger camera
Also, the C200 is significantly more expensive camera … :laugh:
This.
True. I’d wanted a Komodo to fully match my A-cam, and that’s a more expensive camera than either and doesn’t have built in ND at all (although you can add Canon’s vari-nd ef mount to it)
Sold out everywhere unless you want to pay $15k for a bundle
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It’s the same sensor and recording options, so while I haven’t seen a comparison I’d be surprised if it was any different. I don’t find the RS to be noticeable on it so far in practice (and I used to own a C200), and there’s a 5.7k mode that cuts down on it significantly with not much crop.
If you don’t mind a crop or just want to get a particular shot that has fast motion in it, the lower the resolution you go the faster the readout becomes.
If you don’t mind a crop or just want to get a particular shot that has fast motion in it, the lower the resolution you go the faster the readout becomes.
It’s the same as the OG P6k, 20ms in 6k raw. Same processor/sensor. From my tests 12ms is where you don’t notice rolling shutter (unless we are talking strobe lights). The Alexa LF is like 15ms in 6k though. P6k is 16ms in 5.7k. The C200 is also 16ms in 4k
So there you go. Same RS as the C200 by bumping the res down to a still-significantly-higher resolution and a wider 17:9 aspect ratio. I just took a look at the crop difference between 6k and 5.7k, and unless you needed absolute max FOV for some kind of specialty shot I'd think everyone would be ok with it.
Those rolling shutter timing measurements should be taken with heavy doses of salt. Canon has never revealed the readout speeds of the C200, C300 Mark III, C70 or C500 II. While 16ms sounds about right, the P6K seemed significantly worse in real world panning and micro-jitters than a 20ms speed would suggest. But that seems like a good tip to shoot at 5.7K crop, I never tried that while I was testing it. Thanks for the tip. It's still a possibility to buy - if I can't save enough for a C70.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Really? It seems to me like rolling shutter is one of the few specs that can actually be scientifically, reliably, and accurately tested. And I'm not clear on why real world performance would differ from tested performance
I can't find a CineD review where they used the strobe test to measure rolling shutter on the C200. The BMPCC 4K they measure as having 16ms full read out, and from the previous post in this thread, the C200 was tested to have to same read out at 16ms. If that was true, the rolling shutter on the two should be equal(?), but I've used both cameras and the BMPCC 4K had visibly worse jello when panning across the same room than the Canon C200. It would be good for someone to test these two on the same head and do pans. I'lll try to do it next time I can get my hands on a BMPCC so I can call BS on that CineD rolling shutter test (if in fact they measured the C200 at 16ms too) or eat crow.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I can't find evidence of a proper strobe rolling shutter test of the c200 anywhere online, certainly not at cined. Can someone link to it if they found it?
But I did see someone asserting that it has 16ms RS because that's the maximum possible in order to read out 60fps (16.66, actually).
Cined measured the c300mk3 at 7.7ms when not using DGO, so it's wholly possible that the c200 makes to 14ms or even 10ms.
Personally, I like RS as fast as possible, but I'm not really bothered as long as it's less than 20ms. 25ms+ is a dealbreaker for me.
I thought people said the bmpcc4k was ok for RS? But I've heard complaints about the bmpcc6k, which can only shoot 50fps at full readout.
This is going off the rolling shutter test found in the thread on this forum.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?303559-Measuring-rolling-shutter-put-a-number-on-this-issue!
Thats where I got those numbers. May not be completely accurate of course.
The Panasonic S1 is supposed to have around 20ms rolling shutter in 4k full frame. I've never had an issue with it aside from doing movements that I never do. Of course being full frame helps as rolling shutter is less noticeable for wider shots and all lenses get a wider FOV with full frame. The only camera I ever had an issue with was the A6300 which was about 39ms in 4k. The one situation where rolling shutter sucks completely is weddings where you have to deal with strobe lights. Thats a killer unless you have global shutter.
In 1080p S35 crop mode on the S1 I found that rolling shutter wasn't an issue even with fast panning. In 1080p S35 crop its supposed to be about 7.4ms. So in terms of rolling shutter that's where I've set the goal post. The A7s3 has like 8.3ms rolling shutter across the board, which is awesome. Most cameras aren't nearly that low though.
The a6500 is the only camera I've ever gotten rid of because of the rolling shutter. I don't do whip pans at 200mm or hand-hold the camera in a moving car on a bumpy road. Pretty much the only time I move the camera it's on sticks, a slider or a gimbal, so RS is something I'm never really looking out for. I would have loved to have gotten a Komodo for the global shutter though, just because it would open up shots I wouldn't try on any RS camera. I'd bet RED's entire new lineup will be global shutter and Komodo is just the test case.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
OK, I see those tests. It looks like the C200 comes out at 16.1ms (tested) and the BMPCC6K at 6K comes out at 19.7 (officially). So, there's a difference there.
I'm not sure RS is a total dealbreaker with strobe lights. To be sure, it screws with how they render on video. But I'm not sure any wedding clients would be pissed off about it or consciously recognize that there's something wrong.
That being said - even if you don't notice a rolling shutter artifact, I still feel like a slower rolling shutter impacts your motion cadence negatively.
And I feel like the ratio of the rolling shutter to the frame rate is important. I feel like a lot of cameras have a sort of smeary looking motion in slow motion even if they look fine at normal speed.