Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro with Internal ND Filters and EVF

Well, if you consign yourself to using a vari-ND, then changing ND takes very little time. Good point about ISO 100 although then aren't you distributing 2 more stops to the shadows? (I mean, I do it too, but it doesn't seem to be as clean a getaway as ND, especially since I often want those stops in the highlights on a sunny day)

Re: focus taking a second - my greater concern is shots that aren't static camera/static subject
 
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ahalpert said:
Well, if you consign yourself to using a vari-ND, then changing ND takes very little time. Good point about ISO 100 although then aren't you distributing 2 more stops to the shadows? (I mean, I do it too, but it doesn't seem to be as clean a getaway as ND, especially since I often want those stops in the highlights on a sunny day)

Re: focus taking a second - my greater concern is shots that aren't static camera/static subject
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Yes, I agree.
 
Bassman2003 said:
The poor battery life is a shame. Real world of ~40 minutes is just too short. They just can't make cameras without some kind of gotcha feature...! Really nice camera but at $3,000 with the viewfinder, it is close enough to other choices like the A7sIII which are a more complete bundle. But I do l like the BM imagery. Probably why Sony felt compelled to add S-Cinetone to the A7sIII. Maybe the GH6 is lurking around some corner... :)
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To be honest I was worried about it as well but its kind of a moot point with so many power options out there. I don't even mind swapping out the little batteries every hour or so. In a studio situation the power cord that comes with it works great. I use my P4k for live streaming on Twitch and just plug in the power and let it stay on for many hours.
 
puredrifting said:
Having shot a project with the PCC 6K last year, I don't understand the battery run time complaints on this new one. If you need the run times, just slap a V mount on the back, or use the grip with the internal.
This camera needs a cage badly and it's a full blown cinema camera so should have FF, rods, cage, but now can you can get away with not needing an external monitor. It's not really a GH5 that can be slung around without accessories,
it needs them so why not add one of the next gen small, light V mounts to the back and not worry about battery life?

If I wasn't so invested in Canon and Fuji. I'd pick one of these up, it makes what was already a good camera with shortcomings into a great camera with none I can see short of no AF. But it's a cinema camera
so keep a mirrorless for AF and stills. It's astounding how much value this new camera gives for a pittance. Kudos Grant and company, you're raising the bar. BMD continues to impress the hell out of me! Frankly,
If I was Sony and Canon, this camera would embarrass me as far as value equation compared to our latest cameras.
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I use the P4k all the time accessory free. Well I take that back I do use a 5" loupe attached to the screen. But beyond that I think the camera works perfectly well as is in many situations.

Wit that said I agree that I think the battery concerns are a little over exaggerated. While maybe not as convenient as a 4 hour battery ever since cameras have moved to 4k I don't recall ever seeing 4 hour battery life again. All cameras have gradually shrunk their runtimes as they put out better quality while keeping bodies small. I realize for some live event people 2 hours is kind of a holy grail but there are battery grips out there capable of that. There are some 3rd party P4k battery grips that even take 3 batteries vs the 2 batteries of the BMD brand battery grip. Not sure how well they work but there are dozens of power solutions out there.

I personally don't have an issue at all swapping out tiny batteries every 45-60 minutes depending on BMD or generic brands. Longer runtime would be nice but it is in no way a show stopper at all or should ever be considered a valid reason to not get the camera.
 
ahalpert said:
Well, if you consign yourself to using a vari-ND, then changing ND takes very little time. Good point about ISO 100 although then aren't you distributing 2 more stops to the shadows? (I mean, I do it too, but it doesn't seem to be as clean a getaway as ND, especially since I often want those stops in the highlights on a sunny day)

Re: focus taking a second - my greater concern is shots that aren't static camera/static subject
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Unless one moves between indoors and outdoors a lot. Then its still a massive pain to take off the VND and find a safe place to stick it.
 
Since no built in IBIS for the 6K Pro, recommendations for a lens with IS?

Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

Canon 16-35mm f/4 IS

Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 OS

other?

Also what gimbal would fit the size of the larger 6K Pro? Would the latest generation of the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 be a perfect match for gimbal use?
 
Apologies if I missed this I skipped 7 pages: is this the first DSLR sized camera with built in NDs? Might we finally have entered the era where such is standard on small cameras?
 
filmguy123 said:
Apologies if I missed this I skipped 7 pages: is this the first DSLR sized camera with built in NDs? Might we finally have entered the era where such is standard on small cameras?
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Fujifilm has included a single built-in ND on their X100 cameras (the ones that look like classic 35mm still rangefinders) for 10 years. But my guess is having a fixed lens and esp. not having IBIS helps. So engineers have been thinking about that sort of thing....
 
Not sure about every model Fujifilm has, but the ND in the best video model they have (X100V) doesn't work in video (only photo).

Canon's XC10/15 (if applicable) was most likely the first.

Sony's ZV-1 has one (impressive for that model/price).
 
filmguy123 said:
Apologies if I missed this I skipped 7 pages: is this the first DSLR sized camera with built in NDs? Might we finally have entered the era where such is standard on small cameras?
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That depends on what you consider to be DSLR sized. Do you consider the C70 to be DSLR sized? It has built in ND and weighs less than the BMPCC6k Pro, is almost one inch narrower, just over a half inch taller, and a tiny bit shallower. In other words, it's around the same size, less weight, just different proportions and shaped like a DSLR.


Canon C70 Specs
Dimensions 6.3 x 5.1 x 4.6" / 160 x 130 x 116 mm
Weight 2.58 lb / 1.17 kg


Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro Specs
Dimensions 7.08 x 4.41 x 4.84" / 179.83 x 112.01 x 122.94 mm
Weight 2.73 lb / 1238 g

I think the main thing comes down to the depth, front to back. There was quite a bit of discussion about ND's on the new FX3, which predictably didn't lead to ND's.


I guess the question is really about how deep a camera has to be, with current tech, to include ND's? 4+ inches is what we're seeing so far.

I would more than happily see something like the FX3 add a solid inch or even more to it's depth for the inclusion of eND if they could do that.

Edit: Newshooter article on FX3 clarifies that the eND in the Sony cameras is housed in the space below the mount, so we are talking about adding height to the camera. Physical swing out ND's might be different, but in any case, both the height and depth are substantially bigger than typical DSLM cameras whenever ND's are present, it seems.
 
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The ND filters can't be combined, right? 6 stops of ND at ISO 800 won't be enough to reach large apertures on a bright, summer day in NY, although it's way better than nothing and more than enough most of the time
 
My -hunch- is that the BMD camera has two filters, to save space. So there's a 2-stop and a 4-stop, and they can be combined for 6 stops. But I don't really know.

Here's the specs from BMD's site. Not too in depth, but that's fine:

Built in ND Filters
Four position ND filter with clear, 2‑stop, 4‑stop and 6‑stop IR ND filters.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Unless one moves between indoors and outdoors a lot. Then its still a massive pain to take off the VND and find a safe place to stick it.
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True. In a pinch you can go to minimum ND and perhaps boost the ISO, but obviously not ideal. But I've done that in a hurry
 
ahalpert said:
The ND filters can't be combined, right? 6 stops of ND at ISO 800 won't be enough to reach large apertures on a bright, summer day in NY, although it's way better than nothing and more than enough most of the time
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Of course you can. Should be hot mirror or IRND though, 2-4 stops all you need. I have 10X hot mirror ND screw on, it's hard to get enough light through it at 1000 ISO on a bright day. 6x not enough, 10x too much, for P6K, my $0.02. Actually 6X is plenty fine on my P6X because of aforementioned 100-400 ISO settings. On my F55 at 1250 base ISO for SLog 2/3, different story. It has 6x built in but I add more more Formatt hot mirror ND filtration through 4 x 5.65 mattebox.
 
One last comment on the topic of "cinema" camera designation (continuing my argument about autofocus) -

Many cinema cameras don't come with a built-in or a kit EVF, even if the company sells a standard accessory (or multiple options). and yet people cry bloody murder if a sub-$20k "cinema" camera doesn't include one. For that matter, ARRI and RED don't have internal ND and Brawley says he wouldn't use it anyway since he likes to test his filters and make sure they're in peak form. It's all a state of mind as to what must be included and what needn't be. Ultimately you just want the best design for your needs and the labels be damned
 
Tom Roper said:
Of course you can. Should be hot mirror or IRND though, 2-4 stops all you need. I have 10X hot mirror ND screw on, it's hard to get enough light through it at 1000 ISO on a bright day. 6x not enough, 10x too much, for P6K, my $0.02. Actually 6X is plenty fine on my P6X because of aforementioned 100-400 ISO settings. On my F55 at 1250 base ISO for SLog 2/3, different story. It has 6x built in but I add more more Formatt hot mirror ND filtration through 4 x 5.65 mattebox.
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I don't mean combining with external ND, I mean if you could use the internal 6-stop and 4-stop simultaneously to achieve 10 stops of reduction. But I'm guessing they would have mentioned that and, as Jim Feeley pointed out, they may already be combining only a 2 and a 4 to make 6
 
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