C100: blackmagic 4K is here, how does it compare to the C100.

lol @ dustys boobs

Take dustys experience and put it in the context of a 45 day indie feature shoot alternating between days on set and assembly edit days, some of it to be shot on a remote mountain in the middle of winter.

Blackmagic made a big mistake leaving aliasing/moire solutions to 3rd parties. Its crazy to make cameras that can only be used in a professional environment on the hope of a 3rd party solution, until then it's just another hobbyist toy, and you can buy a nice hobbyist toy for $700. Even if the BMPRO ships in July it could be 6 or more months before there's a VAF filter for it (assuming it has an aliasing issue too), by then I expect to see more cost competitive options from the majors.
 
agree about the olpf being needed on the bmc - just find it curious that many who were defending the canon dslrs with fervour not so long ago diss the bmc for the same problems they were very recently able to overlook so easily....
 
ade4all said:
agree about the olpf being needed on the bmc - just find it curious that many who were defending the canon dslrs with fervour not so long ago diss the bmc for the same problems they were very recently able to overlook so easily....
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Like who? I was never able to overlook the moire on the 7d, that's why I immediately got the 5dmarkIII. Because, no moire. Very important.
 
hmm well it seems to be the 5d2 users who moved to the 5d3 & then proclaimed aliaising & moire the devils work....am only bantering here, please dont take it personally - just seems to be a similar thing with the bmc - the argument always seemed to be that the image was worth dealing with its issues - dont have an issue with that just find it a tad ironic thats all
 
Don't forget that when the 5D MKII came out there were no other options (D90 excluded) except small sensor video cams with 35mm adapters. I lived in moire hell for 3 years, it didn't matter how much pre-thought I put in to production design, the aliasing and moire was everywhere like ants in an actors eyebrows on a closeup or moire in the fabric of a black wool suit. The MK III fixed the moire at the expense of muddying the image.

The C100 has the least compromises in IQ for the least money and if Canon had of priced it more reasonably at under $5000 on launch I think just about every 5D shooter would have bought one. It cost $7400 on launch here and I haven't seen a better price than $6600 here since the US price drop. The D5200 is also moire free and has more resolution than the MKIII but doesn't come close to the C100s IQ. The BMPRO sounds promising but so did the BMCC before we discovered it had gen 1 DSLR aliasing, moire, and rolling shutter.
 
tis all good, and i guess your experiences with the 5d2 taught you not to want to deal with its problems again - im probably coming from the other side having used panasonic m43 cameras which have been relatively free of these issues but have their own quirks....
i agree the c100 has the best moire free image at its price, it is just that little bit too over priced for these crazy camera ripe times
do love that bmc image though (at least on the cinema camera) - another twist of irony says am almost willing to put up with the m&a possibilities - but the head keeps winning the battle with the heart - an olpf reasonably priced would make the decision easy
 
RZE said:
the girl looking screen right is c100, the girl looking screen left is BMC...
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Is this referring to your second set you linked to on Flickr—the one I commented on?

Because then I'll go look for a hat to chew on, and then eat.

Your Flickr-set to me:

1. Color, contrast levels, black point and texture all looks like C100 to me
2. Color cast (too green), black levels (too dark) and texture (none? Uncompressed DNG) looks like something I don't know= BMC
 
Vintage glass makes a good intermediate solution for moire, till someone comes up with a OLPF for the BMC :D
 
squig said:
lol @ dustys boobs

Take dustys experience and put it in the context of a 45 day indie feature shoot alternating between days on set and assembly edit days, some of it to be shot on a remote mountain in the middle of winter.

Blackmagic made a big mistake leaving aliasing/moire solutions to 3rd parties. Its crazy to make cameras that can only be used in a professional environment on the hope of a 3rd party solution, until then it's just another hobbyist toy, and you can buy a nice hobbyist toy for $700. Even if the BMPRO ships in July it could be 6 or more months before there's a VAF filter for it (assuming it has an aliasing issue too), by then I expect to see more cost competitive options from the majors.
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http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?3568-Taking-the-Camera-Cold-Real-Cold-My-experience

Not sure if that counts as production environment, maybe it does for some.

Every camera is susceptible to dust being carried into the body, isn't there a C100/300 thread right here with people reporting dust issues?

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...e-quot-to-some-internal-c300-components/page2

squig said:
The BMPRO sounds promising but so did the BMCC before we discovered it had gen 1 DSLR aliasing, moire, and rolling shutter.
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Marco already showed that the Camera had as much rolling shutter as the MK3. Aliasing and Moire, different story.
ade4all said:
agree about the olpf being needed on the bmc - just find it curious that many who were defending the canon dslrs with fervour not so long ago diss the bmc for the same problems they were very recently able to overlook so easily....
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Same. Although it goes both ways, as I'm not a fan of moire but I'm invested in Blackmagic, and will be further invested when the new cameras are ready to go. THus, I'd like to see a solution (being redundant here, there are two already headed this way.)

Postmaster said:
Vintage glass makes a good intermediate solution for moire, till someone comes up with a OLPF for the BMC :D
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IT can, just at the expense of detail. I'm finding that modern glass just looks a bit more pure on the camera, but of course that's all just preference. Your stuff looks great, Frank.
 
Kholi said:
Every camera is susceptible to dust being carried into the body, isn't there a C100/300 thread right here with people reporting dust issues?

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...e-quot-to-some-internal-c300-components/page2
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I had dust issue with an older C300. I now bought a new C300 and I don't find the dust issue even after shooting in extremely dusty environments in Assam, India.

The moire on the early DSLRs were terrible. However, my Canon 1D Mark IV was much better in moire. Still there was moire. Once I found moire while reviewing the footage in the 1D Mark IV LCD while shooting a crocodile, but when I went back to the room and reviewed on the larger Macbook Pro screen, I didn't find it.
 
Kholi said:
Marco already showed that the Camera had as much rolling shutter as the MK3.
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Who's Marco? I've been shooting with the 5dmarkIII action oriented shots for awhile and in 720p mode the rolling shutter is actually excellent. It halves it from 1080p and makes shooting action quite good.
 
If production rolls out as planned in July, a FF 4k for $4k cam is going to be really hard to beat for most productions.
 
All the hesitation about whether or not BM can deliver is quite understandable. But it would surprise me if they went through the same debacle one more time.

Surely, they have sought out a sensor partner that is more reliable and they probably also have a good grip on what the interest in the product might be?

It's not like they're a kickstarter company, is all I'm saying... (even if the first round made everyone feel that way)
 
alex1 said:
If production rolls out as planned in July, a FF 4k for $4k cam is going to be really hard to beat for most productions.
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What do you mean by most productions, most productions need time code sync doesn't that eliminate black magic off the bat?
 
alex1 said:
If production rolls out as planned in July, a FF 4k for $4k cam is going to be really hard to beat for most productions.
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Productions of what kind? I think that statement is pretty silly. Most large productions that demand 4K for whatever reason are going to be looking at more complete solutions from RED, Arri, and Sony. BM cameras are just way too lacking in useability, even when rigged. Not to mention that the vast majority of DPs prefer less stuff on the camera rather than more - they are only concerned with achieving the artistic vision in my experience. Especially feature DPs.

Blackmagic will serve their place on ultra microbudget films where 4K is looked at as a glimmer in the director/DPs eye. In terms of data rates at 4K raw this thing is going to be stupid. And the dynamic range (which was the biggest highlight to me on the BMCC) is out the window. So yeah I can see where the market for this exists, but it's not going to be the camera for most productions. Very few actually, if I had to guess.
 
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