C100: blackmagic 4K is here, how does it compare to the C100.

Shawnvfx said:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k

just want to open discussion, Without mentioning ergonomics, I guess the only advantage here for C100 is the low light sensitivity.

Different market here and I sure know you have to build a whole rig around it where C100 works just like that etc etc

But for 4 grand you get 4K+raw, I still feel bad : ( especially for those 1DC owners

lol
Click to expand...

Further advantages of C100:
1. XLRs with mic inputs with phantom power and metering
2. Maybe higher dynamic range (more bits don't necessarily equal better range if the sensor is not as good)
3. Maybe less noise
4. Maybe better color
5. I know you said "without mentioning ergonomics"... but sersiously, it matters!
6. Lots more!

There is plenty of space for both cameras, I think!

1Dc has the advantages of amazing color and look right out of the box... a great still camera... plus it is great for shooting incognito.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Shawnvfx said:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k

just want to open discussion, Without mentioning ergonomics, I guess the only advantage here for C100 is the low light sensitivity.

Different market here and I sure know you have to build a whole rig around it where C100 works just like that etc etc

But for 4 grand you get 4K+raw, I still feel bad : ( especially for those 1DC owners

lol
Click to expand...

BMD 4K only shoot maximum 3840X2160 which is UHDTV standard. 1D C shoots 4096x2160 which is DCI compliant.

Also, numerous user reports on BMCC since its release have proved that it's not a reliable camera (it's gradually getting better I should say), I believe it will be the same for the 4K version.
 
bruceallen said:
Further advantages of C100:
1. XLRs with mic inputs with phantom power and metering
2. Maybe higher dynamic range (more bits don't necessarily equal better range if the sensor is not as good)
3. Maybe less noise
4. Maybe better color
5. I know you said "without mentioning ergonomics"... but sersiously, it matters!
6. Lots more!

There is plenty of space for both cameras, I think!

1Dc has the advantages of amazing color and look right out of the box... a great still camera... plus it is great for shooting incognito.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

yah I know ~ thats why I aimed the topic on the resolution.

I feel Canon should do it on a C100, even with a 2k raw output or something! But we get nothing ! even no 60p !

I dont understand, Gopro can do it (60p or 120p) in that small housing, why not Canon! seriously, even resolution loss on higher fps is better than nothing.
 
Depending on the type of work you do, 4k can be not only overkill, but a hassle in post. Don't be sad, rock what you've got. Be happy when you get new 64gb SD cards instead of 480GB SSDs.
 
The way I feel about the C100/300 is that you are shooting 4k and internally delivering 1080p. And basically that is how Canon describes it.

Shaw, you say you would take a res hit for 60p? Then why don't you just convert 60i to 60p? You actually end up with more vertical lines in rez than 720/60p.

Apples and oranges. Would you shoot 4k RAW on a 30 minute documentary in the depths of a humid jungle? Or would you walk into that jungle with a camera that can shoot all day with 2 batteries, built in ND, XLR, waveform, peaking, ergonomics, reliability, and full s35?

GoPro can do it because the sensor is how big?

If one camera could do it all, then why do we have 50 cameras to choose from?

Not sure if you have ever noticed the sidelines at a sporting event. But if you have there are lots of canons over there. Canons that take stills and cost those guys $8000 with $12,000 lenses on them. I'm pretty sure the 1Dc will find it's market easily when you start thinking about multimedia acquisition. ANd those that see the 1Dc as an option won't think twice of it's price. So why feel sorry for the 1Dc or anyone that buys one?

By the way, I sold a BMC and went with the C100. I don't regret it for a second. And I still like the BMC. But it's about finding a camera (a tool) that works for how you work and your needs.
 
The price drop on the C100 works for me (just what I was waiting for). In fact, I was planning on buying the C100 and a 24-105 lens (before knowing about the discount), so I will be saving $1600 (Kit Price is $6099)! Also, Atomos Ninja 2 also dropped to $695 (another $300 saved for me). Total savings for me will be $1900! Placing my order this week (most likely with Texas Media Systems)!!!! I'll probably buy into the 4K for $4K after they get all the kinks out. Nothing against BMD, over time, Black Magic Design will help to reduce pricing on future Sony, Panny (AF200) and Canon products!!! Room for Everyone to Prosper!!!!

By the way, Dustylense is always spot on target with this topic!!!! He's got a CLASSIC post roaming around out there on the C100/ BMCC!!!
 
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You know I actually think the BMC range compliments the Canon range rather well. The C300 (and C100 I presume, haven't used it yet) are perfect cameras for people with small production companies. My business needs portability, NDs, low-light, cheap memory and a battery solution that doesn't involve a rig.

The BMCCs don't do any of those things well enough to rely on them for my business, but they sure do a whole host of other awesome stuff. 4k, Global Shutter and RAW are straight up awesome features that increase the range of things I can offer as a production company. Think about the amount of things someone who owns a C100 and a BMCC Production Camera can do, all for less than the price of a Scarlet brain.

Not to mention, the BMCC Pocket Cam gives every Canon Cinema user the opportunity to own a sharp, ProRes and log-shooting b-camera for less than a thousand dollars.

The only people who I think might have come out losers here are the original BMCC camera owners. This is a lot more camera in very little time and I can imagine some of them feel stung.
 
I went out the other day to shoot some payday stuff. Nothing big nothing exciting but I did my "a dollar made is a dollar earned" philosophy.

I grabbed the C100, 2 batteries, 1 32gb SD card, and a small hip bag of lenses (3 total). Weighs about 10 pounds total. Shot all day and came home with about 2 hours of footage. (I could have left the second battery at home). I also took a carbon fiber pair of sticks and a lightweight slider.

With the BMC I would have taken the camera, lenses, 2 batteries that weigh more than my C100, 2 480gb SSD's, my laptop, external backup drive, TB adapter to transfer footage, my ND's and IR filters, external monitor +batteries (for waveform), heavier slider to support the BMC, heavier sticks to support the slider and the camera. I'd say just guessing about 60lbs of gear.

Apples and oranges. But to me and "MY" eye, nearly the same quality in image in terms of rez and feel. Well, the C100 doesn't moire like the BMC but hey.

Would I like 1080/60p in the C100. Of course! Why not? Would I like 13 stops DR in the C100? Sure. But what I love about the C100 is that EVERY Eos lens works on it. The camera just becomes invisible and I don't really have to worry about things like IR, ND, sound. Just get a proper exposure and a proper white balance and shoot away. Will I buy another BMC? Sure. When I see one on the shelves at the camera store. Also when I see a service center that I can drive to. Guess what? I can rent the BMC for $125-200 a day, if I need it.

I'm not saying this one is better than that one. I'm not saying don't buy the camera you feel is right. I will say that NO SINGLE camera is going to make you better than you already are. For every positive there is a negative, sometimes two. It's finding that balance and what feels right to you.
 
miseducation said:
You know I actually think the BMC range compliments the Canon range rather well. The C300 (and C100 I presume, haven't used it yet) are perfect cameras for people with small production companies. My business needs portability, NDs, low-light, cheap memory and a battery solution that doesn't involve a rig.

The BMCCs don't do any of those things well enough to rely on them for my business, but they sure do a whole host of other awesome stuff. 4k, Global Shutter and RAW are straight up awesome features that increase the range of things I can offer as a production company. Think about the amount of things someone who owns a C100 and a BMCC Production Camera can do, all for less than the price of a Scarlet brain.

Not to mention, the BMCC Pocket Cam gives every Canon Cinema user the opportunity to own a sharp, ProRes and log-shooting b-camera for less than a thousand dollars.

The only people who I think might have come out losers here are the original BMCC camera owners. This is a lot more camera in very little time and I can imagine some of them feel stung.
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And you can rent all of these cameras.
It comes down to which one you want to own as your main hammer.

I like the pocket BMC, but I also love the look of s35. But there is NO WAY in hell I'm gonna jump on the pre-order wagon this time.
 
I've been questioning whether or not I should get a C100 or BMC 4k as well.

But when I took a minute and thought about it, the reason I'm not going to get the new 4k version is the same reason I don't already have the old version. The accessories drive the cost up more than I would like.

The C100 just fits what I need in a camera better than anything else. Other than the lack of 60p it's perfect.
 
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dustylense said:
The way I feel about the C100/300 is that you are shooting 4k and internally delivering 1080p. And basically that is how Canon describes it.
Click to expand...

The BMC 4K has the option of recording onto 1080p (ProRes HQ 422, 10 bit). And it does so not by selecting the center of the sensor but by using the full 4K raster which is then downconverted to 1080p on the fly (no pixel Binning). So similar to C100/300 here, though in the case of the BMC 4K you have the 'extra' option of shooting 4K ProRes or lossless compressed 4K RAW if you want.
 
marvinhello said:
BMD 4K only shoot maximum 3840X2160 which is UHDTV standard. 1D C shoots 4096x2160 which is DCI compliant.
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The difference between UHDTV (3840X2160) and 4K (4096x2160) is 256 pixels horizontally, which is visually indistinguishable, in other words insignificant. You can easily upconvert UHDTV to 4K to make it DCI compliant.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
I've been questioning whether or not I should get a C100 or BMC 4k as well.


But when I took a minute and thought about it, the reason I'm not going to get the new 4k version is the same reason I don't already have the old version. The accessories drive the cost up more than I would like.


The C100 just fits what I need in a camera better than anything else. Other than the lack of 60p it's perfect.
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I've been on the fence about this too. I've been making fun of Canon for days since the BMPC was announced. They deserve it in many ways. It must be glorious to have a 4K global shutter device. But I have a lot of worries. Needing another rig, needing an external battery, frame drops, hard drive space. The C100 will not have me worrying about those things and it can maneuver quick. I just don't want to spend $6,000 on that thing!!! That's insane for an 8-bit camera.
 
shuenwang said:
I've been on the fence about this too. I've been making fun of Canon for days since the BMPC was announced. They deserve it in many ways. It must be glorious to have a 4K global shutter device. But I have a lot of worries. Needing another rig, needing an external battery, frame drops, hard drive space. The C100 will not have me worrying about those things and it can maneuver quick. I just don't want to spend $6,000 on that thing!!! That's insane for an 8-bit camera.
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$5499 for the C100 right now and $695 for the Ninja 2 (10 bit). No better time than now to buy the C100!
 
Tim Nitsch said:
I've been questioning whether or not I should get a C100 or BMC 4k as well.

The C100 just fits what I need in a camera better than anything else. Other than the lack of 60p it's perfect.
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maybe it's time for Canon to add 1080 60p through firmware update (at least if it only through the use of an external recorder).
 
lexicon said:
The BMC 4K has the option of recording onto 1080p (ProRes HQ 422, 10 bit). And it does so not by selecting the center of the sensor but by using the full 4K raster which is then downconverted to 1080p on the fly (no pixel Binning). So similar to C100/300 here, though in the case of the BMC 4K you have the 'extra' option of shooting 4K ProRes or lossless compressed 4K RAW if you want.
Click to expand...

The problem is that nothing has been seen from this camera yet, and so comparisons are completely pulled out of one's ass.
 
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