C100: blackmagic 4K is here, how does it compare to the C100.

lexicon said:
maybe it's time for Canon to add 1080 60p through firmware update (at least if it only through the use of an external recorder).
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I wondered why it didn't have it from the beginning, it seemed like such a no brainer.

But then I remembered the C100 is not really a traditional 1080p camera, it's techincally a 4k camera (albeit down-converted to 1080p internally) is it not?

Which means it would need to have the horsepower to handle 4k 60p, so I guess maybe the processors that are in the C100 don't have that ability. Or do they? Does the C500 have the same processors?

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?
 
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This conversation is similar to the one that was raging when the C300 was announced against the RED Scarlet. Spec sheet and sticker price would seem to greatly favor the BMPC just like the Scarlet vs C300, but the Canon's still win on real cost of operation, workflow, and ergonomics, not to mention beautiful picture right out of the camera. There were a lot of fanboyesque claims of "game over" "no contest" etc when the internet chimed in on the C300 vs Scarlet, but we've all seen just how popular the C300 has become because it's proven itself in the real world. just like the Scarlet works great for some people, I think that the BMPC will be a great camera for a lot of people when it comes out, but if I was buying a new camera today and BMPC and C100 were the only two choices, I'd still go with the Canon.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
I wondered why it didn't have it from the beginning, it seemed like such a no brainer.

But then I remembered the C100 is not a really a traditional 1080p camera, it's techincally a 4k camera (albeit down-converted to 1080p internally) is it not?

Which means it would need to have the horsepower to handle 4k 60p, so I guess maybe the processors that are in the C100 don't have that ability. Or do they? Does the C500 have the same processors?

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?
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yes, it could be that the processor on the C100 lacks the horsepower (and the cooling system) to handle 4k 60p. good point.
 
c100 fits dusty's work. it probably fits most of the projects that i do
but i love the bmc and it fits the things i actually want to do.

apples n oranges is a right way to describe it. I wouldnt mind a c100+ninja2 on my arsenal but i can only have one cam at a time.
 
Both cameras have their pros and cons. In my experience, for advertising or film may be better BMC camera, for documents or traveling would be better C100 camera in this duel (but both types of work you can do with both cameras).

Really depends on what you're shooting, in this price class is not perfect camera so it is necessary to choose which features are important to you.
It is necessary to evaluate the intensity of workflow, battery life, weight, ergonomics, ND filters, the price of media, time-consuming color correction, etc.

I agree that many people are still on the waiting list for delivery BMC camera, the new type comes too soon for them.
 
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In the Corporate world, we don't have to think either/or. I'm using my C100 for 85% of my work, but the two EX1s are still dragged out for the stuff they're good at.

The Production camera might just become my go-to cam for chromakey - I want 10 bit 422 HD, I get 12 bit 422 at 4K which I can downsample to a 444 equivalent.

And the real biggie - Global Shutter! Suddenly, solving motion tracks aren't the nightmare that you get with rolling shutter.

I love shooting with the C100, but there's times when you need to 'Bring Out the Gimp' for those techno shoots. I don't want to shoot everything at 4K, but in my niche of the industry, we've had 4K projection for a while, and 8K is already upon us.

So, not selling the C100, will get the BMPC and the two can share the work.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I absolutely hate that more manufactures don't build cameras with a swappable lens mount setup, allowing the use of multiple lens mounts. OK, I get that Canon wants to sell Canon lenses, so an EF mount makes somewhat sense in the C100. But for Blackmagic to release a 4K camera with a fixed EF mount, they are shooting themselves in the foot! Hell everybody that owns a PL mount lens would likely buy a cheap Blackmagic 4K camera to play with if the lens mount was an option.

Just my thoughts.

Dave
 
David W. Jones said:
Hell everybody that owns a PL mount lens would likely buy a cheap Blackmagic 4K camera to play with if the lens mount was an option.
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Except that the vast majority of customers who are interested in a $4k camera like this will own EF glass due to the popularity of DSLRs. It's business sense.
 
Gary Huff said:
Except that the vast majority of customers who are interested in a $4k camera like this will own EF glass due to the popularity of DSLRs. It's business sense.
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Business sense?

Then why not release a camera with a changeable mount and not limit your customers to only EF mount lens owners? The Sony NEX cameras like the FS700 come to mind.

Have all those aftermarket companies who are already designing add-ons for the Blackmagic camera knock out a few different lens mounts.

I understand that Canon EF lenses are out there in bulk, but to limit the design of a new camera by incorporating a built-in lens mount with a flange depth which was designed for clearance of a reflex mirror is so behind the times for a company pushing this far forward.
 
Shawnvfx said:
I still feel bad : ( especially for those 1DC owners, lol
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And then later on "I've been making fun of Canon since the BMCv2 announcement"...

Honestly, what's up with this? To quote good ol' Springsteen: "...make you look like a fool boy"

I've shot quite a bit with the 1Dc and I've got one on order. The BMCv2 announcement didn't even make me lift one eyebrow. Wait, that's not correct... I did lift an eyebrow, but that's it. Do you understand why?

I thought "this is going to be a great camera for some people. A really good point of entry to quality imagery if the sensor holds up and they can deliver. Hopefully, a dream come true for a lot of film makers". I was happy for those guys. And knowing that you get DaVinci Resolve too... it's a great deal.

You're LOLing?

People who buy the 1Dc have needs that the 1Dc can deliver. Do you understand that the feature set of the 1Dc differs from that of the BMCv2? Tell me if you want me to make a list.

Twitter was ripe with comments along your lines after NAB. Problem is, these comments say nothing about the cameras, but a whole lot about the people making them.

But what the hell, eveyone is entitled to an opinion, so do keep the "open discussion". Just make sure not to mention, like you say, ergonomy, or that "other stuff" that makes the 1Dc an actual camera and not a sensor-in-a-box.
 
Except the prices that we are considering here quite a lot different. $12,000 for a camera body is three times what the BMCv2 is proposing.

IMHO, which is the same EOSHD is always saying, Canon seems to take us for fools, releasing a Mark III version of the their 5D, priced as the original BMCv1, and not uimproving on what they should have to for video shooting.

Instead they release much more expensive models like the 1Dc, C100 and C300.
 
marvinhello said:
BMD 4K only shoot maximum 3840X2160 which is UHDTV standard. 1D C shoots 4096x2160 which is DCI compliant.
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Since the 1DC records in a heavy compression, you not gonna get 4096x2160 actual detail out of it, so that argument is mute.
You probably get more detail out of a 2.5k BMC, even if scaled up to 4096x2160.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Just make sure not to mention, like you say, ergonomy, or that "other stuff" that makes the 1Dc an actual camera and not a sensor-in-a-box.
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The 1DC form factor is only good if your shooting photos or trying to steal shots pretending to be a tourist. Otherwise using a DSLR for video is essentially a sensor in a box ergonomically.
 
What canon lacks as usual is marketing and development talking to one another.

i love my c100 as is, but seeing all the competition and these forum discussions, i think the best thing they could do is, if possible, have the c100/300 record 2k natively. the dumb part is that 2k/hd are barely different, but for marketing and competing with the rest of the competition, it would certainly help
 
David W. Jones said:
Business sense?

Then why not release a camera with a changeable mount and not limit your customers to only EF mount lens owners? The Sony NEX cameras like the FS700 come to mind.

Have all those aftermarket companies who are already designing add-ons for the Blackmagic camera knock out a few different lens mounts.

I understand that Canon EF lenses are out there in bulk, but to limit the design of a new camera by incorporating a built-in lens mount with a flange depth which was designed for clearance of a reflex mirror is so behind the times for a company pushing this far forward.
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I wouldn't be surprised if a PL version will be announced just after the camera hits the stores.
 
As for delivery I think they actually could make it in July. The camera is basically done. They just need to stick the sensor and updated board in it. Not starting from scratch.
 
I don't know why BMPC4k camera needs to be compared to the C100 or even C300 (for my purposes). I pre-ordered a BMPC4k as soon as pre-orders went live, because at that price, I really can't afford not to get it - even if I only use it for studio and/or green screen work. I know I can pull cleaner keys off of 4k resolution than I can off of 2k, and even if I only ever use it for that, it's worth the price of admission (to me).

Many people won't find the added cost and time for workflow adds up for them; only if you need it's features. I can promise you that my C300 is not going stay on the shelf once this camera arrives. I've got way too many clients that prefer the ease of use and workflow of the C300, and they don't want 4k or raw. But at the price that it's being given away at, the BMPC4k camera can help me do some tasks at much higher quality without breaking my bank. But it won't do low-light, ease of use, or ergonomics anywhere close to Canon C-series cams.

The C-series cams and BMPC4k can live harmoniously very nicely, especially since they share mounts and have close to the same sensor size. I plan to use the BMPC4k to augment my C300, because it's certainly not anywhere close to a replacement. And I think there-in lies the brilliance of having an EF mount, it's a great compliment to C-series cams and Canon DSLR users; low-cost 4k for when you need it and it will use lenses that the vast majority of owner/ops, production companies, & boutique rental houses already have.

If you're trying to decide between one or the other - good luck! They do separate things exceedingly well and you'll make compromises of some sort with either choice. Depends on what your bread & butter is, honestly. And what you're prepared to stomach workflow-wise.
 
Also, regarding the EF mount: more and more lenses are coming with interchangeable mounts, and EF is fast on it's way to being an established standard. I'm particularly excited about the Schneider Xenon FF's, which will have an interchangeable mount! I was almost sold on Canon Cinema Primes until I got my hands on the Xenon's at NAB.
 
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