Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

gene_can_sing said:
This is great and all, but can't they do something about that horrendous form factor? For me, it's not just the picture, but how much fun I am having shooting is definitely part of the equation. They should just try a bit harder to make the camera more production and run and gun friendly.
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I think that is a double edged sword, maybe even tripple edged (if possible). There have been massive delays on their last camera, but there are plenty of cages and gear for it, it would be a slap in the face for the people going for the Black Magic brand. I also like their idea that you can make the camera bigger, but not smaller. If you want to pimp it out, you can, if you want it to be simple you can. Nobody is really locked out now.
 
Sorry for my questions, Can you change aperture on the pocket cam with a canon lens attached? Would shooting with canon glass on this cam make any sense? What all purpose mft lens for this in great quality would you suggest?
 
jjneff said:
Sorry for my questions, Can you change aperture on the pocket cam with a canon lens attached? Would shooting with canon glass on this cam make any sense? What all purpose mft lens for this in great quality would you suggest?
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Nope. Just like with GH2or GH3 you would need an adapter with an aperture ring to adjust Canon EF lenses. The f2.8 zooms should be really good from Panasonic.
 
visugeek said:
Two things about the BMCC, first it's 13 stops of DR instead of 12 on the BMPC, that may be important to some folks, second, the RAW is uncompressed while the RAW on the 4k is compressed. The BMCC is currently shipping in some quantities so if you can do a job or 3 with it before the BMPC arrives next fall or winter or spring, it should pay for itself.
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Compressed CinemaDNG has mathematically (not just visually) lossless compression -- so no data are lost.
 
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I do not understand why the BM mini camera is limited to 30p? It is like a Vimeo camera. Surely they can readout a s16 sized chip at 60p? Especially at 720p...
 
Bassman2003 said:
I do not understand why the BM mini camera is limited to 30p? It is like a Vimeo camera. Surely they can readout a s16 sized chip at 60p? Especially at 720p...
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The data rate would probably still be too high. It's already pushing the limits of current SD cards to record 30p in 1080 prores and especially raw. 60p may be a bit over the limit. Perhaps also, there might be cooling issues related to recording at higher speeds, and the small form factor doesn't leave enough room for an adequite heatsink. That's just speculation.

What I'm slightly more annoyed by is that the 4k model is apparently still limited to 30p also. If they could get faster frame rates, even if it meant windowing the sensor down to 2k, then that would seal the deal for me personally. I'd buy it in a heartbeat and would probably never upgrade to anything else until my BMPC eventually broke down beyond repair, hopefully years and years from now . YMMV, but I can't think of ever needing anything more.

Global shutter (finally!), 4k, raw, 12 stops DR (that's still plenty). That's pretty much "There" for me and no doubt for plenty of other users. Which is probably why there's no 60p yet. Have to wait for the current models to saturate the market before up-selling everyone to 60p capable models.
 
Tzedekh said:
Compressed CinemaDNG has mathematically (not just visually) lossless compression -- so no data are lost.
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Indeed. But the BMC-4K won't record RAW initially, only ProRes:
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/20...the-bmcc-and-does-a-4k-upsize-of-the-orginal/
So you're choosing between 2.4K 2.3x-crop RAW/ProRes for $3K or 4K 1.7x-crop ProRes for $4K. And if/when the BMC-4K gets RAW recording, the datarate recording compressed RAW will be over 50% higher than what you get from a BMC recording uncompressed RAW (18 vs 32 minutes of RAW on a 240 GB SSD).



Bassman2003 said:
I do not understand why the BM mini camera is limited to 30p? It is like a Vimeo camera. Surely they can readout a s16 sized chip at 60p? Especially at 720p...
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My guess is that their image processing is not fast enough for anything above 30p. IIRC, the original BMC also had a sensor that could, in theory, deliver >30p.



Wesley Byram said:
Global shutter (finally!), 4k, raw, 12 stops DR (that's still plenty). That's pretty much "There" for me and no doubt for plenty of other users. Which is probably why there's no 60p yet. Have to wait for the current models to saturate the market before up-selling everyone to 60p capable models.
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Unlike Canon, Panny or Sony, I think BMC is not leaving anything out purposedly. They're not trying to protect previous products. They have a lot to win, and not much to lose, and are throwing on the table everything they have. Or that's what it looks like from here.
 
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Samuel H said:
Unlike Canon, Panny or Sony, I think BMC is not leaving anything out purposedly. They're not trying to protect previous products. They have a lot to win, and not much to lose, and are throwing on the table everything they have. Or that's what it looks like from here.
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You may be right. Still, if they are protecting any market at all, it isn't a pre-existing one, but a future market for a potential higher-end cam. Besides, they have to leave at least some of the market to Sony, Panny, etc. It's only sporting. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

BMD is obviously taking feedback from users and potential users very seriously. The 30p limit has been mentioned enough that I think it will be addressed sooner or later. Hopefully, with firmware, if the hardware can do it. 1080p at 60p is still about half the data rate of 4k at 30p, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.
 
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Wesley Byram said:
What I'm slightly more annoyed by is that the 4k model is apparently still limited to 30p also. If they could get faster frame rates, even if it meant windowing the sensor down to 2k, then that would seal the deal for me personally. I'd buy it in a heartbeat and would probably never upgrade to anything else until my BMPC eventually broke down beyond repair, hopefully years and years from now . YMMV, but I can't think of ever needing anything more.

Global shutter (finally!), 4k, raw, 12 stops DR (that's still plenty). That's pretty much "There" for me and no doubt for plenty of other users. Which is probably why there's no 60p yet. Have to wait for the current models to saturate the market before up-selling everyone to 60p capable models.
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+1000, 2K @60fps or more would make this camera very complete. That being said, this is still a ridiculous deal assuming the image quality is solid.

I posted on a F55 thread a few days ago where I wondered how long Global Shutter functionality would filter its way down to lower end cameras.... apparently July was the answer...lol
 
Argh! WHY ANOTHER BLOODY EF MOUNT?! Why?! Just give me PL or something with a short flange distance please.
 
Grug said:
Argh! WHY ANOTHER BLOODY EF MOUNT?! Why?! Just give me PL or something with a short flange distance please.
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BMD are likely making use of the bodies that are already in production in order to cut down on expense and save time. That limits them to EF or m4/3. Maybe they thought that native m4/3 glass wouldn't cover the s35 sensor, so decided to just use the EF mount only.
 
As much as I want one of the new Black Magic Cameras, my concerns are storage and the storage of storage.

How are other people archiving their work from the Black Magic Cinema Camera? At this point on my T3i and HMC150, I have been keeping my original footage on an SD card for archiving purposes because they are cheap enough.

My feeling is that the Black Magic cameras are very good for narrative work, and probably music videos and commercials, but for corporate work, where the better dynamic range and color would be useful, I don't see them as practical.
 
Samuel H said:
Indeed. But the BMC-4K won't record RAW initially, only ProRes:
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/20...the-bmcc-and-does-a-4k-upsize-of-the-orginal/
So you're choosing between 2.4K 2.3x-crop RAW/ProRes for $3K or 4K 1.7x-crop ProRes for $4K. And if/when the BMC-4K gets RAW recording, the datarate recording compressed RAW will be over 50% higher than what you get from a BMC recording uncompressed RAW (18 vs 32 minutes of RAW on a 240 GB SSD).
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I wonder when the DNG/RAW options will be "enabled"?
 
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Kenneth Fisher said:
As much as I want one of the new Black Magic Cameras, my concerns are storage and the storage of storage.

How are other people archiving their work from the Black Magic Cinema Camera? At this point on my T3i and HMC150, I have been keeping my original footage on an SD card for archiving purposes because they are cheap enough.

My feeling is that the Black Magic cameras are very good for narrative work, and probably music videos and commercials, but for corporate work, where the better dynamic range and color would be useful, I don't see them as practical.
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Lets just say that I shot a corporate video destined for web and I went with a combo of raw and prores (maybe 70/30) and it took 2.5 TB's to archive the work. Prores 4k will be just as large as shooting RAW on 2.5k. So yes, data storage comes into play greatly when considering these cameras.
 
"I want, want want and am never happy with anything, bla bla bla..."

Come on people you are already getting a camera that less than a week ago was only a dream. I have never heard so much whining in my life. Some of you sound like children who are never happy with anything. Just what the heck do you want for $4000.00? I paid more than that for my Canon XL1 when it first came out. Heck I remember paying $12,000.00 for a SONY DSR500 which was still DVCAM but it had 2/3" chips. Now you get a camera that any other manufacturer would never throw at us at this price point and all people can say is why doesn't it have this or why can't it do that. Maybe you should focus your life more on production than what a camera can do. If you are a good film maker than there is no reason why you cannot create a great piece with a GH1. If you want 60p or a PL mount request those features. BMD tends to be a company that actually listens to people. Speak up to them and not on a forum where all you are doing is looking like greedy whiners who are never satisfied with anything in life.

Rant over.
 
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